Wolf vs. Hornady Brass comparison (with pics)

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  • Wolf vs. Hornady Brass comparison (with pics)

    The other week I took out the grendel to test fire it. I had just received my upper back from AA for extraction & ejection issues....along with hornady factory ammo being a very tight fit in the chamber.

    At any rate, I fired 40 rounds..... 20 wolf mpt and 20 Hornady Amax ammo. I thought I'd share pics of the fired brass. Many of you have said that the wolf ammo is significantly softer than the hornady and lapua brass. I guess it's true.

    HAve a look at these 2 pictures. I grabbed 6 of the wolf (including the one wolf that had a primer blow out) and 6 of the hornady. Look at the differences between the 2 of them. they were fired within minutes of eachother, so everything should be the same. The cases have alot of filth on them; I was shooting at an indoor range and the floors are caoted in burnt powder residue.
    Look at the extractor swipes on the wolf cases. Most of the cases have jagged pieces of brass peeled back from the case head. Also, note the ejector circle on the case head....very pronounced and you can feel a ridge left from the ejector. It also seems that the primers have shifted rearward in the case. The primers are basically flush with the back of the case head....with one blowing out of the case.
    In contrast, the hornady ammo looks pristine. On a couple of the cases, you can see a faint ejector mark. But there are signs of peeled brass from the extractor. Also, the primers are all still perfectly seated in the cases.

    Wolf 120 MPT Brass Cases



    Hornady 123 Amax Cases


  • #2
    That's high pressure, not the result of "soft" brass. The pressure required to blow a primer like that is well above 70K.

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    • #3
      Holy cow batman! I've hot rodded and and backed a few primers out in my time.... but never had anything looking like those Wolf cases.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by mseric View Post
        That's high pressure, not the result of "soft" brass. The pressure required to blow a primer like that is well above 70K.
        then, why aren't the Hornady's showing any pressure signs? Some others have stated that the factory wolf ammo is the lowest pressure of all factory loaded ammo. I'm not seeing any different length dimensions on fired wolf cases over the Hornady cases.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by QuadCam View Post
          then, why aren't the Hornady's showing any pressure signs? Some others have stated that the factory wolf ammo is the lowest pressure of all factory loaded ammo. I'm not seeing any different length dimensions on fired wolf cases over the Hornady cases.
          Could be the OAL of the Wolf has got you pig jammed into the lands, could be a bad batch of Wolf ammo, could be a short throat on your chamber, could be any number of things, but one thing for sure is that's high pressure. I would get a hold of Wolf and AA and show them these photos. If it's not the rifle then it's the ammo, if it's not the ammo then it's the rifle, either way somethin ain't right.

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          • #6
            Overgassed?

            You still have swipes showing on the Hornady brass. Is it possible that your upper is overgassed? I have an SR-25 that used to have similar issues after I had a muzzle brake added. Reloaded match ammo that worked prior to the mod and also in an M1A started to show swipes and occasionally blew primers. The action was opening too soon and before the chamber pressure had a chance to decay sufficiently. The addition of the brake was enough to push the rifle over to an overgassed condition. I added a heavy buffer from Slash and this resolved my problem. What kind of buffer and buffer spring are you using?

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            • RangerRick

              #7
              Could also be an over gassed gun. I had similar problems until I put a an adjustable gas block on my Grendel.

              The dirty cases might be a clue that it's over gassed too. The bolt may be opening when the pressure is too high, causing extractor marks and allowing primers to back out. The gas blows by and get the cases dirty.

              RR

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              • #8
                I've seen over gassed AR's show swipe marks as pictured above, but I have not seen an over gassed AR Blow a primer like that.

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                • #9
                  The dirt is definitely from the floor of the indoor range. I had to use a broom to sweep back the cases that rolled forward of the firing line.

                  As far as the buffer, I just switched to the Vltor A5 buffer system. It uses a longer buffer tube than a carbine tube, different spring and a unique "rifle weight" buffer.

                  The upper just got back from AA (twice actually) where they fired it and checked it out. I would hope it's not an issue with the upper after they checked it out, fixed it, and tested it. Bill Alexander did say that the chamber is a touch shallow on headspacing, but not to worry.

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                  • #10
                    It's funny how there are no visible craters on the primers, at least to me. The Wolf primers also appear to be flattened, while the Hornady's are nice and round on the edges. Can you take pics of the Wolf before and post them? I would also measure your case wall diameters just above the extractor groove recess, and compare new and fired pieces of brass for pressure signs.

                    If you want to keep shooting the wolf, maybe an adjustable gas block is the way to go. Aren't you using an M16 carrier? That A5 stock should be ideal for a carbine, really.

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                    • bwaites
                      Moderator
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 4445

                      #11
                      Which Wolf is this? 123 SP or 120 MPT? Some of the 123 SP had very soft brass, soft enough that it wouldn't hold a primer the second go around.

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                      • #12
                        is it me or does the Case Rims look bent as well? Maybe glare from the camera?

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                        • #13
                          that much primer flattening can't be good. looks like the back of a belted magnum. someone gotta un-hot-rod those wolf loads.

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                          • pinzgauer
                            Warrior
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 440

                            #14
                            Originally posted by tony549 View Post
                            You still have swipes showing on the Hornady brass. Is it possible that your upper is overgassed?
                            My read is overgassed / under buffered. One of mine does this even with extremely mild loads. There are ejector marks on at least three of the Hornady loads.

                            Likewise, I'm seeing jagged extractor issues with one bolt. Swap extractors with another rifle, same ammo/loads, no issue. I think my AA extractor is slightly out of spec as deburring did not help.

                            Regarding all the "you're about to blow" pressure comments.... People confuse brass flowing into the extractor/ejectors (super high pressure) with extractor/ejector marks from overgas in AR's all the time. It also leads to jagged case issues as the case is yanked out before it's collapsed back down. So the front of the case is very tight when extraction occurs.

                            Not saying there may not be pressure issues with the Wolf, just that the marks alone are not conclusive. My bet would be short throat if it is pressure.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bwaites View Post
                              Which Wolf is this? 123 SP or 120 MPT? Some of the 123 SP had very soft brass, soft enough that it wouldn't hold a primer the second go around.
                              This is 120MPT brass. I have fired 100 or so of these wolf rounds in the passed, and when cleaning the cases in Iosso Case Cleaning fluid, I had several more of the primers fall out of the cases. I found the primers at the bottom of the case cleaning bucket.

                              BTW,this wold 120mpt ammo that i have is a couple fo years old. I bought about 200 rounds from a friend who sold his grendel.

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