Cow Elk Hunt with Grendel

[MKN574]

I drew an extra cow elk tag here in northern Idaho and I am going to use my Grendel to fill that tag. My question is what bullet would you use. I filled my deer tags last year with 107 sierra bthp. One at 600 yrds and one at 50 yrds(both performed well). I am going to try the 123 amax's this year for deer. My season doesn't open till January so I have a little time to develop a load. I was thinking of trying the 120gr barnes ttsx for the elk tag but everyone i know has not had good accuracy results.

Mike

[bwaites]

Thats the bullet I would choose, followed by the 100 TSX/TTSX.

[Sniper20]

Granted you are using a Grendel, but when Hornady released the 6.5 Creedmoor (same bullet) there was a guy on youtube that tested them and dropped an elk from 600 yards with the 140gn A-Max. The elk literally ran about 15 feet and dropped... So I figured that if the 140gn A-Max can do that, then the 123 would be just fine... That's what I plan on using when I can go back home to NE to use my rifle (Iowa does not allow rifle deer...).

[warped]

The 123AMAX is going to cause a serious amount of CNS damage, aim for the head or just below the skull.

Why take a body shot on an animal that is so large and with such good meat?

[Sniper20]

I would disagree with a head shot. Too much risk in a miss. Even the most skilled still get a little shaken sometimes when they see that elk/buck they always wanted. I would play it safe and go with a body shot. If the animal is so big, I would take a pound or two of meat that I can't eat cause it's shredded, or a missed shot with no meat...

[r3dn3ck]

i wouldn't feel right about using grendel on such a large animal. Anything below 2400lbs energy seems a little slim to me. I like 270cal 150gn and 30cal 180gn for animals of that size. Waste a couple pounds of meat or take the chance of losing the critter... I'll lose a little meat thanks. Headshots are showoff shots to be taken at very near range. I shoot neck if I'm within conversational distances and body for everything else.

[warped]

CNS hits are not for showing off, they are shots that can be achieved through practice and also for the purpose of humane taking of animals.

They also achieve not have a huge adrenaline dump occurring, this is the reason why slaughterhouses use a bolt gun instead of less than adequate means.

[bwaites]

i wouldn't feel right about using grendel on such a large animal. Anything below 2400lbs energy seems a little slim to me. I like 270cal 150gn and 30cal 180gn for animals of that size. Waste a couple pounds of meat or take the chance of losing the critter... I'll lose a little meat thanks. Headshots are showoff shots to be taken at very near range. I shoot neck if I'm within conversational distances and body for everything else.

Hmmmm....then no one should be bow hunting for elk or even deer. Arrows generally carry significantly less than 300 foot pounds of force. Mark Larue took an elk at 405 yards with one shot and a Barnes TSX from a Grendel with a complete pass through of the bullet. If the bullet goes all the way through, that would tend to make me believe it had sufficient energy to do the job.

BUT....I understand we all have to hunt with what we feel is ethical and correct. I wouldn't shoot at a game animal at any significant distance, but have no problem dropping coyotes at long range, because they are nuisances and pests. Even with them, I want a humane kill.

[davidj]

i wouldn't feel right about using grendel on such a large animal. Anything below 2400lbs energy seems a little slim to me. I like 270cal 150gn and 30cal 180gn for animals of that size.

There are lots of stories about elk kills with the 6.5. However you only hear the ones about successful kills. Unfortunately, I have come across two wounded elk that had enough energy left to evade pursuit, only to die from their wounds. What a waste.
I am not saying they were shot with 6.5's. New Mexico is always plagued with back and forth winds that will affect most shots. If you can't guarantee a perfect hit You should use more gun.

[bwaites]

There are lots of stories about elk kills with the 6.5. However you only hear the ones about successful kills. Unfortunately, I have come across two wounded elk that had enough energy left to evade pursuit, only to die from their wounds. What a waste.
I am not saying they were shot with 6.5's. New Mexico is always plagued with back and forth winds that will affect most shots. If you can't guarantee a perfect hit You should use more gun.

I would disagree. If you aren't sure of a lethal, humane shot, you shouldn't take the shot. I've heard so many stories of deer lost from .300 WinMag hits that I can't even count them. How much more gun would help that?

More gun doesn't help unless you can put the bullet where it should have been in the first place!

[LRRPF52]

If you marry your rifle, and know what it does at distance and in different wind conditions, when the moment of truth rests on the crosshairs aligned with the smallest aspect of the target, you'll know whether to take the shot or not...Within 300yds, there should be no question of shot placement. Even a 2 MOA cone of error gives you a hit within 6 inches. Most everyone here shows pics of groups well under 1 MOA, so even if you were stressed to get into position, heart-rate gets up a bit, no bench...you still will be within a certain hit probability within that 6" circle at 300yds. I think most can hold better than that if they follow good fundamentals. The scope Mark LaRue used was a simple Burris 1-4x XTR with a doughnut reticle and drop stadia. One of his trusted longer-range shooters made a bullet drop card for him and that Barnes, and it worked out well for him. He had even removed the scope for travel up to the hunting area, and re-attached it before going out with the guide, who thought he was insane. Another shameless plug for LaRue mounts I guess.

[MKN574]

For my first post on this forum I didn't think I would cause this much controversy. I just wanted some bullet suggestions to try for a medium skinned animal. I am not a novice hunter. I primarily hunt elk with a bow and know the animal quite well. I am familiar with their anatomy and my shooting skills. My last 5 elk in six years have been shot at 2, 6, 10, 16 and 12 yards. The last being a 6x6 at 12 yards this last september. I understand and know how to take an elk down. I am going to use the grendel but just wanted suggestions on a good bullet. I have not tested more than 2 different bullets on game with the grendel(120 grain hotcore and 107 sierra). 2 deer with each bullet. I practice regularly out to 1000yrds with my 50bmg and spend alot of time at the 500 to 600 yrd range with the grendel and 308. I am not wanting to shoot my cow elk at these ranges though. Planing on trying to keep it under 300yrds.

Bill, thanks for the suggestion. I will try the 120 grain barnes ttsx's out. Just skeptical about accuracy with them.

Mike

[bwaites]

For my first post on this forum I didn't think I would cause this much controversy. I just wanted some bullet suggestions to try for a medium skinned animal. I am not a novice hunter. I primarily hunt elk with a bow and know the animal quite well. I am familiar with their anatomy and my shooting skills. My last 5 elk in six years have been shot at 2, 6, 10, 16 and 12 yards. The last being a 6x6 at 12 yards this last september. I understand and know how to take an elk down. I am going to use the grendel but just wanted suggestions on a good bullet. I have not tested more than 2 different bullets on game with the grendel(120 grain hotcore and 107 sierra). 2 deer with each bullet. I practice regularly out to 1000yrds with my 50bmg and spend alot of time at the 500 to 600 yrd range with the grendel and 308. I am not wanting to shoot my cow elk at these ranges though. Planing on trying to keep it under 300yrds.

Bill, thanks for the suggestion. I will try the 120 grain barnes ttsx's out. Just skeptical about accuracy with them.

Mike

Mike, heck, this didn't even get heated!

I haven't shot the TTSX's, but have shot the TSX's. They were 1 MOA bullets in my rifle. Not as good as Amax 123's or SMK 107's, and not as good as Nosler BT's. BUT...for an elk, I would think you want a little tougher bullet than the BT's. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot the Barnes, but understand the accuracy questions!

Congrats on the bow hunting! That is seriously impressive! Pictures please!!!

Where are you in Idaho? I'm in Orofino for 3-4 days every spring for Boomershoot.

[MKN574]

Bill, I am in Moscow. The boomershoot is a blast, no pun intended. Have not been since they started offering the spots to returning shooters first. My wife had been paying for my spot as a christmas present and I did not realize that they offered the spots early so I lost mine. Pretty much gave up since there is only 100 spots. I will try to figure out how to post a picture.

Mike

[bwaites]

Mike, there are still opennings for April. I help LR1955 with the precision rifle clinic on Friday and Saturday.

[MKN574]

Wow, the price has doubled since I went the last time. I guess the price of fertilizer has gone up! :)

[LRRPF52]

The value of the dollar has gone down...as in way down. Back to topic...I would also like to see pics of the close-in shots. On my bucket list in life, is to do that with Alaskan Grizzly and a pistol...maybe .454 Casull or one of the bigguns...

[MKN574]

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z414/mcnauman1/IMG_0613.jpg

Here your go. He bugled around 50 times while I was calling to him. Used mostly cow calls at first while i slipped into about 60 yards then I let out a little spike squeal and that pissed him off. He came in and stepped out from behind a tree at 12yards.and the rest is history. He went about 60 yards and piled up.

Hopefully I will be posting a picture of my cow elk that shoot this January with the Grendel!

[bwaites]

Sweet...Awesome!

I have a new bow hunting hero!!

[bwaites]

Wow, the price has doubled since I went the last time. I guess the price of fertilizer has gone up! :)

They put up about 2-3 times the number of targets. I think there were 12-1500 last year.

We shoot a couple hundred each evening of the Precision Rifle Clinic, even!

It's still worth it!

[LRRPF52]

That is an amazing photo and story sir. Very cool...looks like an even 6x6.

[RangerRick]

...I practice regularly out to 1000yrds with my 50bmg and spend a lot of time at the 500 to 600 yrd range with the grendel and 308. I am not wanting to shoot my cow elk at these ranges though. Planing on trying to keep it under 300yrds.


Mike

Hi Mike,

Welcome. Can you tell us about your experience with the Grendel in winds out at 600 yards compared to the 308? Any advice?

RR

[Aquateen]

I would disagree. If you aren't sure of a lethal, humane shot, you shouldn't take the shot. I've heard so many stories of deer lost from .300 WinMag hits that I can't even count them. How much more gun would help that?

More gun doesn't help unless you can put the bullet where it should have been in the first place!

Ding Ding Ding.... winner! I believe this rule should apply to anything you plan on killing.

[MKN574]

Hi Mike,

Welcome. Can you tell us about your experience with the Grendel in winds out at 600 yards compared to the 308? Any advice?

RR.

Most of my practice is not paper punching. We go out on a friends property and do what we call canyon shooting. We use what we would have while out hunting, backpack, bipod, rangefinder and our gun. I figure if I cannot hit a 6" to 12" target in a real hunting situation on the first shot I have no business taking it. The winds are usually always changing in the canyons. They both are pretty close as far as adjustments for the wind but in my experience I think the 308 barely edges out the grendel. I do my paper punching at 100 to 200yrds. I can get as far as 500yrds on paper but never have shot paper with any significant amount of wind. If the wind is more than 10mph I will try to cut the distance or not take the shot. I know this probably doesn't answer your question completely. One thing we have done in the winter months when it is wet(soaked) is shoot tracers with a breeze. It really opened my eyes on how much your bullet moves left and right when shooting across canyons. Not to mention it is cool as hell to watch your round drop/drift onto your target. Here is my disclaimer. DO NOT shoot the tracers when it is dry out. :)

[sneaky one]

Dave j. maybe get closer in to shoot at game,, wind swirling around is no excuse for not trying to snipe - close up. The Grrr. is fine, close or far, within reason- by way of speeds, and a bit more forgiving than say a .22 caliber . Know thy rifle, know it's trajectory- path. The Grendel round== nice -name,,, works,- within it's limits. It is not magic!! Any one that shoots long range with the grr. round is asking for a wounded animal,,, unless you are a---- shooter. Not a wknd. warrior shooter,,, a real deal sniper kind of shooter= even then,,, the grrr., is better close in, given the bullets we can choose from. I've chosen the lighter wt. gmx bullets to take deer within 250 yrds. Many prefer a 120 grn. bullet, lead core based. Over confidence will wound more deer than , knowing the bullet you use inside and out, without questions, about it's range and capabilities, and a lot of testing- h2o juggs- any kind of throw away ribbz- meat chunks from the local groc. store== real world testing. Do it. Do it at diff. ranges, to see the effects, and accuracy- even in (switching winds).

[mpstan]

Hi MKN,

Nice picture....... beautiful animal.

I know 100 TTSX are the darlings right now but I bought two boxes of 120's and am headed out for opening day to the Tonasket, WA area tomorrow with them. My 19.5" Grendel, with good old TAC, 28.3 grains, gives me 2409 fps and .6 to .7 inch 5 shot groups with the 120 TTSX.

Good luck

[RangerRick]

.

Most of my practice is not paper punching. We go out on a friends property and do what we call canyon shooting. We use what we would have while out hunting, backpack, bipod, rangefinder and our gun. I figure if I cannot hit a 6" to 12" target in a real hunting situation on the first shot I have no business taking it. The winds are usually always changing in the canyons. They both are pretty close as far as adjustments for the wind but in my experience I think the 308 barely edges out the grendel. I do my paper punching at 100 to 200yrds. I can get as far as 500yrds on paper but never have shot paper with any significant amount of wind. If the wind is more than 10mph I will try to cut the distance or not take the shot. I know this probably doesn't answer your question completely. One thing we have done in the winter months when it is wet(soaked) is shoot tracers with a breeze. It really opened my eyes on how much your bullet moves left and right when shooting across canyons. Not to mention it is cool as hell to watch your round drop/drift onto your target. Here is my disclaimer. DO NOT shoot the tracers when it is dry out. :)

Thanks! Real world experience is exactly what I was looking for. Great picture, btw. Anyone that can get with 25 yards of an elk for a bow shot is a true hunter.

RR

[louieprkr]

I love the arguments on whether or not a specific caliber or range is ethical... I highly doubt anyone is going to change another's opinion on the matter but fun to discuss regardless. My opinion on the matter should be quite obvious based on my signature. We all draw our line of ethics in our way. To me, if the round can do it, and the shootercan hit his target in the right spot (wherever he believes that to be) then go for it. I would in no way endorse the use of rimfire, or "small" caliber (less than .22) centerfire round for whitetail but If you can do the job with a 22-250 then so be it. I guess thats where my line of ethics falls. I am aware that plenty of large game has been taken with a .17HMR, but most would agree thats simply inadequate.

Bill Alexander proved the capability of the grendel with his 400 yard shot and total passthrough as was mentioned before. This gives me confidence the round is capable for quite a few more yards. I know that many variables can change the efficiency of the round/shot, however it can be done with perfect success.

I am willing to bet 9 out of 10 hunters have missed a deer. Does this mean that 9 out of 10 hunters were taking unethical shots? I don't believe so. Here in Georgia, the DNR in part decides how many tags hunters can fill based on how many deer where involved in auto accidents. When they allow for 12 deer to be taken, they are hoping most hunters have a good year. Deer also do a substantial amount of damage on the crops in south georgia, because of this many farmers have spotlighting permits that allow them to hunt year round. Point being, deer can be a bit of a nuisance in the south. Now this doesn't mean I don't respect the animals. I hate the thought of any animal suffering, whether its an opossum or a deer I don't want any animal to suffer. I do bow hunt, which is not always a fast clean kill, but thats hunting. Sometimes a kill takes a while, and sometimes it doesn't happen at all. As hunters it's our responsibility to do our best but I don't find it unethical to use a less than ideal weapon. As long as both you and the weapon are adequately capable, go for it!

[Mav714]

From what I've read you are obviously a skilled hunter! I do not believe that you would take an ill advised shot with any caliber let the Grendel.. I agree with the barnes or the Hornady 123 SST. Remember it's not the caliber but the placement.
I read once where two young native American girls took a Grizzly bear that came too close with a 22 LR.

[KentuckyBuddha]

From what I've read you are obviously a skilled hunter! I do not believe that you would take an ill advised shot with any caliber let the Grendel.. I agree with the barnes or the Hornady 123 SST. Remember it's not the caliber but the placement.
I read once where two young native American girls took a Grizzly bear that came too close with a 22 LR.
....not only that but...
http://badassoftheweek.com/genemoe.html

[Von Gruff]

Now that is a heck of a hunting tale even if it is unessarily peppered with cussing. Tough is a state of mind and determination or desperation can overcome seemingly impossible odds. http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/Miscelaneous/thumbsup2_zpsc1d5d77f.gif (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/Miscelaneous/thumbsup2_zpsc1d5d77f.gif.html)http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/VonGruff/Miscelaneous/thumbsup2_zpsc1d5d77f.gif (http://s667.photobucket.com/user/VonGruff/media/Miscelaneous/thumbsup2_zpsc1d5d77f.gif.html)

[KentuckyBuddha]

Oh sorry, I remembered the story, and just saw a link that told the tale. But to be fair, I am extremely profane as I seem to find a great deal of things I observe that appear to require profanity to adequately modify them. : )

[Variable]

Here is an interview with Gene Moe, and told in his own style of language.;)

http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/amazing/protection_gene_moe.aspx

[KentuckyBuddha]

I prefer the other...but hey that is why they make strawberry and vanilla. : )