Issues with first reloads

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  • Issues with first reloads

    To start, im reloading wolf once fired brass w/ CCI LRP #200. I cleaned, sized, primed and trimmed all of the cases the same.

    These are being shot out of an Alexander Arms 24" AWS upper on a MEGA billet lower w/ a G&R LPK and Geissele SSD-E Trigger.

    I loaded 20 90gr Speer TNT rounds to a COAL of 2.200. All 20 fired without issue. Awesome.

    I loaded 20 120gr Hornady Amax rounds to a COAL of 2.245. Most of them had this issue.

    I loaded 20 120gr Nosler Ballistic tip rounds to a COAL of 2.245. Most of them had this issue.

    The issue is i would chamber normally by pulling the charging handle all the way back and releasing the charging handle. The round appeared to fully chamber but when i pulled the trigger i just got a click. I went to extract the round but it was VERY hard to do. I had to brace the butt of the stock against my knee and use both hands on the charging handle. One of the rounds was so stuck that the case came out but the bullet was lodged in.

    i ran all the remaining shells through the case gauge and they all fit except for 1. i also measured them all and they were all +.001 or +.002. I think the next thing im going to do is go back to the range with them and see how they do one by one. i have the rounds with the extra .001 or .002 marked on the case and ill see if thats the issue.

    Were the COALS too long on the 120gr's and the bullet was getting stuck? Or were they not crimped enough and the inertia of chambering was dislodging the bullet and causing it go to forward?
  • RangerRick

    #2
    The 120 AMax has an ogive (tip) that's too fat to fire in a Grendel without very deep seating. That reduces your powder space. Use the Hornady 123 AMax instead. It works great. It has a more pointed tip and won't hit the lands as easily.

    The 120 AMax will get stuck in the lands of the barrel if seated too long. That can cause excess pressure.

    The 123 AMax was designed specifically for the Grendel and has a much better ballistic coefficient than the 120 AMax.

    The Nosler 120 BT's will work without using excessively short C.O.L, just seat a bullet in a fired and re-sized case and keep re-seating and ejecting it until it doesn't stick in the lands. Then seat another one with a fresh bullet and chamber and eject it, then check to be sure there are no rifling marks on the bullet to be sure it's seated deep enough.

    If you had one not fit in the case gauge, you may need to set the case shoulder back a little more by setting your sizing die lower to the shell holder. Sometimes it needs to actually touch the shell holder before you cam over with the handle.

    As for the bolt appearing closed and only getting a click. It will do that if it's very close to being fully closed, but not quite, the bolt carrier won't be all the way forward and will prevent the firing pin from getting a good hit, so that the gun won't fire without a fully locked bolt.

    Which dies are you using?

    RR
    Last edited by Guest; 10-17-2011, 03:26 AM.

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    • #3
      i know the 120 amax is a really long bullet and has problems in the grendel. It sounds like your bullets are getting stuck in the lands. Somebodu should be along soon with some more info for you.



      edit somebody beat me to it lol

      Comment


      • #4
        thanks for the info. kinda sucks about the Hornady but at least i know that it wasn't me doing it incorrectly.

        what is the seating depth that i need to follow? i was following the guidelines set in the Alexander arms COAL for the nosler and the hornady for the hornady bullets. what i dont want to do is seat too deep and then cause the case pressure to go up and i have an explosion. what are your over all lenghts or how far additional do i need to seat? how far can i go and not have an issue?

        im not really worried about "the one" that wasnt fitting in the gauge, i could have just not down stroked all the way in the die. im just worried about all of the issues that i was having.

        concerning the setting of the dies, i turn them down till the touch the shell plate and then an additional 1/4 turn. they are the lee 3-die set.

        Comment


        • #5
          Pull the bullets on a few of the offending rounds, dump the powder. See if the brass alone will chamber and eject with ease. If not you know your sizing die is not bumping the shoulder back far enough for your chamber. If yes, then seat a 120gr Nosler BT to Alexander Arms specs of 2.245 and see if it chambers, ejects with ease and no rifling marks. If it does not chamber then your chamber is out of specs.

          Seating deeper will decrease pressure not increase it. The farther away from the lands the less the pressure.


          Comment

          • LR1955
            Super Moderator
            • Mar 2011
            • 3355

            #6
            Originally posted by Raider1v1 View Post
            thanks for the info. kinda sucks about the Hornady but at least i know that it wasn't me doing it incorrectly.

            what is the seating depth that i need to follow? i was following the guidelines set in the Alexander arms COAL for the nosler and the hornady for the hornady bullets. what i dont want to do is seat too deep and then cause the case pressure to go up and i have an explosion. what are your over all lenghts or how far additional do i need to seat? how far can i go and not have an issue?

            im not really worried about "the one" that wasnt fitting in the gauge, i could have just not down stroked all the way in the die. im just worried about all of the issues that i was having.

            concerning the setting of the dies, i turn them down till the touch the shell plate and then an additional 1/4 turn. they are the lee 3-die set.
            MS:

            You said Lee dies? There is half of your problem. No big deal, you are only out $35.00. Get a sizing die made by a reputable company. If you are using a Lee press, there is another problem as they tend to spring a-lot and by doing so, the poor quality Lee sizing die has a much greater chance of not sizing or bumping all of the brass consistently. No sweat on that either, even the best Lee presses cost under $100.00 and you can always use them to pull the bullets. The Lee press is good at that task. Not an insult -- I have a Lee press set up with a bullet puller for precisely this reason and I use it quite often when I screw something up.

            For the AMAX, Make a dummy cartridge, seat the 120 AMAX at a depth you think will chamber and try to chamber it. If it sticks, seat it deeper until it doesn't stick.

            I believe the guys who did use that bullet said they had to seat it so deeply into the case that the neck was right at the junction between the shank of the bullet and where it starts to curve to the tip (ogive).


            LR1955

            Comment


            • #7
              Pull the bullets on a few of the offending rounds, dump the powder. See if the brass alone will chamber and eject with ease. If not you know your sizing die is not bumping the shoulder back far enough for your chamber. If yes, then seat a 120gr Nosler BT to Alexander Arms specs of 2.245 and see if it chambers, ejects with ease and no rifling marks. If it does not chamber then your chamber is out of specs.
              Mseric - I have the LE Wilson head space gauge see here - http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/277...del?cm_vc=S014 and they all fit except 1 case. im not concerned about that one particularly. There were rounds that DO fit the gauge and don't fit the chamber apparently.

              I will re-seat them to 2.245. Right now they are mostly at 2.247. I didnt think that .002 would make that much of a difference but i guess that it does!
              You said Lee dies? There is half of your problem. No big deal, you are only out $35.00. Get a sizing die made by a reputable company. If you are using a Lee press, there is another problem as they tend to spring a-lot and by doing so, the poor quality Lee sizing die has a much greater chance of not sizing or bumping all of the brass consistently. No sweat on that either, even the best Lee presses cost under $100.00 and you can always use them to pull the bullets. The Lee press is good at that task. Not an insult -- I have a Lee press set up with a bullet puller for precisely this reason and I use it quite often when I screw something up.

              For the AMAX, Make a dummy cartridge, seat the 120 AMAX at a depth you think will chamber and try to chamber it. If it sticks, seat it deeper until it doesn't stick.

              I believe the guys who did use that bullet said they had to seat it so deeply into the case that the neck was right at the junction between the shank of the bullet and where it starts to curve to the tip (ogive).
              lr1955 - im not sure i understand your post fully. I have lee dies but am using a Hornady LNL progressive press. What dies do you recommend instead? I bought the lees because they are the same as the Alexander Arms branded ones. I called Lee to confirm this. Would you suggest the Hornady ones instead?

              The possibility of an out of spec chamber isnt a good one. I really hope thats the case. I will re-seat to 2.245 per the AA printed specs. I didnt think that .002 would be an issue but ill re-seat and see if that fixes the problem. The question that I have though, is will i get the same issue if i try to use the 123gr rounds? They have a stated COAL in the reloading doc of 2.260 and 2.265. - http://alexanderarms.com/images/pdfs..._reloading.pdf

              I was staying on the long side of the seating depth because I thought that the further it was seated, the more the pressure.

              Concerning the 120gr Amax - ill just consider it a loss though, i will just not use them. I do however, want to be able to use the 120gr Noslers. they don't have any known issues do they?

              lastly, how will i know if i have an out of spec chamber?

              Comment


              • #8
                Forget the case gauge and use your chamber

                Comment


                • #9
                  For 8208XBR powder, as an example, the difference between loading say a 120 NBT to 2.26 and 2.245 COL amounts to about .2gr loss of powder capacity. That's a small price to pay for safe pressure levels, especially if they group well.

                  Hoot

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                  • #10
                    how will i know if i have an out of spec chamber?
                    Good question. The first thing you should do is pull some bullets and see if the brass alone fits the chamber and extracts with ease. That #1. If not then your dies or the way they are set up is causing a problem.

                    Next is to seat some bullets into the brass that does fit the chamber to Alexander Arms published OAL. AA made the Gun and AA supplied the data so they should work. If not then there is something wrong with the chamber.

                    Forget the case gauge. I have one and I also have a few pieces of brass that fit the gauge and not the chamber. They do make nice paper weights though.

                    Comment

                    • sneaky one
                      Chieftain
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 3077

                      #11
                      Raid, what oal did you trim the brass to ? After the first shot , wolf seems to stretch a bit more than, say AA-, or hornady. I went down to 1.515, on all of them. Iv'e had some wolf , after first shot- at 1.547 +. It also seems like it springs back more than decent brass does, almost like spring steel. I sized a few wolf tonite, and noticed I had to bump them back- .002 more than last time to seat in chamber.... Here's some more Badd newz,,, I just had to do the same thing with my 9-10 shot thru AA brass!!!!! And that's after a chamber cleaning. Must be time to anneal the AA-horn brass. Check steel89's old thread- post- on this-- I guess I do need a winter hobby. I recycle the wolf after 3-4 shots.
                      Last edited by sneaky one; 10-18-2011, 01:35 AM.

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