130 grain Berger VLD rounds w/ Ramshot TAC - Range Data

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  • 130 grain Berger VLD rounds w/ Ramshot TAC - Range Data

    Hey guys... wanted to post this data for anyone who may be interested. I worked up a load for my rifle. My grendel did not really like this round, but rather likes the 120-123 gr rounds instead (will post this in another thread.)

    My rifle: Sabre Defense 20" bbl w/ a 1 in 9 twist, DD upper, Adams Arms piston system, Bushnell elite 4200 6-26x50 w/ illum. Mil-Dot reticle.

    Data:

    I wanted to work up a load with the Ramshot TAC for the 130gr Berger round, but couldn't find much data. I started with a low amound of powder that I was sure was safe and worked my way up based upon data from multiple 129 gr rounds that the TAC was used with. This is what I found.

    Grains/FPS

    24/2117 FPS
    24.5/2140 FPS
    25/2195 FPS
    25.5/2240 FPS
    26/2260 FPS
    26.5/2300 FPS
    27/2350 FPS

    With all of the powder used above, I was carefully watching my brass (which was hornady amax brass that had already been used about 4-5 times) and I had absolutely 0 signs of over pressure. The best group for my rifle was the 27 grains since my barrel likes around the 2350fps mark, although at best it was a 2-3 inch group at 100 yards. All of the rest of the rounds were ALL over the place, didn't have any grouping - i'm talking about 12 inch spread most of the time, looked like a shotgun hit it. I was using the Caldwell Lead Sled (shooting rest) while shooting in the prone, so they were very stable shots.

    Hope this helps some of you in determining your load with the Ramshot TAC!
  • sneaky one
    Chieftain
    • Mar 2011
    • 3077

    #2
    Walt Berger sent me some data last yr. on their bullets. (((( 24 inch barrel ))) 130 hunting VLD--Tac powder start load 22.5 = 2144fps. , MAX LOAD!==25.0 TAC 2366 fps. Powder fill ratio=93% . Maybe try a different scale, yours may be off 2 grns. BTW, the burning question must be asked- how far from the muzzle to the front of your chronograph were you using? . Use 16-20 ft. If you were at 10-14 ft. your'e data is too high. Bring a small tape measure. I tested this a few times, and showed the results to mseric, he thought his chrono ran hot, he puts his at 12 ft, approx. Then he shot through my chrono set at 16-17 ft. with his pet load and It's 104 fps. slower, where his charge/ bullet combo - speed should be. If you compare on a few diff. scales and yours is spot on, you are 2 grn, too hot.!! Don't shoot till you check all this out! When you do get to the bottom of this, let us know. - then email walt at-bergerltd@aol.com, for the rest of the data.

    Comment

    • RangerRick

      #3
      The VLD bullets are VERY sensitive to jump distance to the lands. The Alexander Arms web site has reloading data for the Berger 130 and several other 130 and 129 grain bullets: http://alexanderarms.com/images/pdfs..._reloading.pdf

      I have a 20 inch barrel too, and I've found I get about 100 feet per second less than the Alexander Arms data, which is from a 24 inch barrel.

      Another max load is 28 grains of AA2520.

      You should be able to get close to 2400 fps with several other powders.

      Thanks for the info, I'm about to start working up a load for a Swift Sirocco 130 grain for a hunting load.

      I'm going to try LeveRevolution since it's a little slower.

      RR

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by sneaky one View Post
        Walt Berger sent me some data last yr. on their bullets. (((( 24 inch barrel ))) 130 hunting VLD--Tac powder start load 22.5 = 2144fps. , MAX LOAD!==25.0 TAC 2366 fps. Powder fill ratio=93% . Maybe try a different scale, yours may be off 2 grns. BTW, the burning question must be asked- how far from the muzzle to the front of your chronograph were you using? . Use 16-20 ft. If you were at 10-14 ft. your'e data is too high. Bring a small tape measure. I tested this a few times, and showed the results to mseric, he thought his chrono ran hot, he puts his at 12 ft, approx. Then he shot through my chrono set at 16-17 ft. with his pet load and It's 104 fps. slower, where his charge/ bullet combo - speed should be. If you compare on a few diff. scales and yours is spot on, you are 2 grn, too hot.!! Don't shoot till you check all this out! When you do get to the bottom of this, let us know. - then email walt at-bergerltd@aol.com, for the rest of the data.
        Thanks for the tips! Yeah, I actually have had my chrono too close I guess... more like 4 or 5 ft from the muzzle. I just figured if it's the "muzzle velocity" then it needs to be very close to the muzzle =). Well, I actually got the same data you did on the 130 bergers, but the problem is that it's all wrong - and this I think is due to the fact that it is generated with Quickloads, not real life data. For instance, the COAL for the 130 VLD for my chamber is approximately 0.080 more than what they recommend (2.200), which is nowhere near where it needs to be. Also, according to what you are saying about the chrono, shouldn't my chrono data be reading high? in other words, shouldn't my 24 grains at 2117 FPS actually be slightly lower if i moved my chrono out to where it should be? Therefore, if the ACTUAL velocity for 24 grains of TAC is lower than what I posted (somewhere around 2020 according to what you were saying...) then this shows also that the Berger data is wrong since they are saying that with less powder you will have more FPS.

        Anyway, I'm saying all this to say that I didn't really trust the quickload data as I have read from other forum members that you can't really trust it, especially with the 6.5 grendel. So that's why I started my own load. I will however take you up on your suggestion and move my chrono out more, but I don't know about 16-20 ft? From this other post (who seem to know what they're doing) they say most "muzzle velocity" data is taken at 10 ft.... I will probably move it to this distance.

        Oh yeah, also.... I don't believe I was shooting a compressed load, because my powder was a lot lower in the brass than the varget was that I have used in the past with the 123 scenars... I may have been, but everything seemed fine and the powder was a lot lower in the casing than with the varget.

        If the round was too high/dangerous, wouldn't I have SOME pressure signs in my brass? Thanks for the input... it is well taken.
        Last edited by Guest; 10-22-2011, 02:30 AM.

        Comment

        • sneaky one
          Chieftain
          • Mar 2011
          • 3077

          #5
          That's why you need to verify correct scale readings first. All the chrono readings are false inside of 14'== from the powder blast, and the bullet screaming out the bbl.,, Iv'e checked this for a few yrs. I get the same velocity readings at 16 &22' if closer it gets higher. Trust me, start at 16' on the chrono setup . Ask Rasp., he blew the skyscreens off at 15' with a .375 HH. More powder==more distance from muzzle. I rechecked some older data I shot last yr. It was the 129 sst, over 26.4 Tac. It shot okay- I didn't pursue it as I lost interest in the heavies for the Grr. I never tried a 130 berger, you'd have to look at a side-side comparison to a 129 sst, as far as -oal's, etc. berger used to say- load as close to the lands & mag length as poss. Good luck. I shoot lighter bullets at 2750-2900 fps. at close range deer , with my Grrrr. and lead free ! They fall down as well , or better than being hit by a heavier lead core bullet,,,, hee! Ummmm me lika like me a venison -lead samich-- to go, please. OOOOH, that venny roast was in the crock pot for 8hrs.? with all the Berger lead frags. inside? Yumm. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Really? no press. signs? Are the primers close to AS-NEW diam.? No ejector scar? No ring outside the primer=shiny on the brass? Try it at 16' . Give a speed- primer report. Be safe. John spartan, be well.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sneaky one View Post
            That's why you need to verify correct scale readings first. All the chrono readings are false inside of 14'== from the powder blast, and the bullet screaming out the bbl.,, Iv'e checked this for a few yrs. I get the same velocity readings at 16 &22' if closer it gets higher. Trust me, start at 16' on the chrono setup . Ask Rasp., he blew the skyscreens off at 15' with a .375 HH. More powder==more distance from muzzle. I rechecked some older data I shot last yr. It was the 129 sst, over 26.4 Tac. It shot okay- I didn't pursue it as I lost interest in the heavies for the Grr. I never tried a 130 berger, you'd have to look at a side-side comparison to a 129 sst, as far as -oal's, etc. berger used to say- load as close to the lands & mag length as poss. Good luck. I shoot lighter bullets at 2750-2900 fps. at close range deer , with my Grrrr. and lead free ! They fall down as well , or better than being hit by a heavier lead core bullet,,,, hee! Ummmm me lika like me a venison -lead samich-- to go, please. OOOOH, that venny roast was in the crock pot for 8hrs.? with all the Berger lead frags. inside? Yumm. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Really? no press. signs? Are the primers close to AS-NEW diam.? No ejector scar? No ring outside the primer=shiny on the brass? Try it at 16' . Give a speed- primer report. Be safe. John spartan, be well.
            Alright bro, I'll definitely take your advise then... 16' it is =). But no, no pressure signs, primers weren't backed out or flattened, no pressure rings, etc. But I will definitely report back on any more data I get... gonna try and get some more tomorrow to dial in my 120 amax's more (in .2 grain increments). Yeah, I'm trying to get it ready for deer season as well =) looking forward to shooting one w/ this! hehe. must be nice that your rifle likes so much speed.... I wish mine did, I would love to have more velocity. oh well...

            Comment


            • #7
              130 bergers

              I have a 1-8" twist and they shot into a .550 group with 25.0gr of N530vv . I measured their length at 1.358" and according to the ballistic software program I use that requires a 1-8.6" twist. I think
              your 1-9 might not be enough to stabilize them.
              Rich

              Comment

              • mtn_shooter

                #8
                Originally posted by richie301 View Post
                I have a 1-8" twist and they shot into a .550 group with 25.0gr of N530vv . I measured their length at 1.358" and according to the ballistic software program I use that requires a 1-8.6" twist. I think
                your 1-9 might not be enough to stabilize them.
                Rich
                Yep this was my thought, too. It sounds like marginal stabilization getting better as velocity increases. I had the same issue shooting 62 grain ammo out of a 20" 1:12 twist AR upper 8-10" groups @100yd, tumbling 6ft wide patterns at 200.

                Comment

                • Flyguy11
                  Warrior
                  • Nov 2015
                  • 111

                  #9
                  Anyone else do any testing with these bullets? I have an 18' 1 in 8 twist barrel on the way and have had a heck of a time finding data and a good powder to start with. I was originally thinking BL-C (2).

                  Comment

                  • LRRPF52
                    Super Moderator
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 8569

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Flyguy11 View Post
                    Anyone else do any testing with these bullets? I have an 18' 1 in 8 twist barrel on the way and have had a heck of a time finding data and a good powder to start with. I was originally thinking BL-C (2).
                    Do you have the reloading handbooks yet? There is a ton of data in them, to include the Berger 130gr VLD. The source for that is also listed in this thread with a hotlink on post #3.
                    NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                    CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                    6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                    www.AR15buildbox.com

                    Comment

                    • Rainman
                      Bloodstained
                      • May 2015
                      • 87

                      #11
                      I have an 18" BHW 1:9" twist barreled .264 LBC. With 129 and 130 grain loads my 100 yard five shout groups almost doubled the .50 MOA my rifle typically shoots with 100s-123s and would probably open up the groups even more at 200 yards and beyond. Berger says maximum twist rate for this bullet is 1:8.5". I just ordered a new AA 16" Light Weight upper with 1:7.5" twist so I should be able to test this in the next few weeks. An acquaintance has shot several .30" 100 yard five shot groups with my 1:9" BHW with 107-123 grain handloads and factory ammo so the gun is more accurate than I am but does not appear to like the heavier bullets.

                      Comment

                      • Flyguy11
                        Warrior
                        • Nov 2015
                        • 111

                        #12
                        I do not have the books yet and in post #3 the Alexander Arms (AA) data only lists one type of powder. I did save the AA data for future use but I was looking for more test data to get an idea of expected results. Do you happen to have a hotlink for the books?

                        Comment

                        • VASCAR2
                          Chieftain
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 6218

                          #13
                          If your referring to the 6.5 Grendel handbooks, here is a link.

                          Comment

                          • LRRPF52
                            Super Moderator
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 8569

                            #14
                            The 130gr Berger VLD has a very long boat tail, so it is one of the more minimal bearing surface pills in the 129-130gr weight class, still cup and core pill.

                            You can use the start load data for the 130gr Swift Scirocco, and work up. The 130 Scirocco has way more bearing surface than the VLD, since its boat tail is so short.

                            Here is some load data that was posted here on the forum back in 2011:

                            Code:
                            Bullet	Powder	Start Load	Vel	Max Load Vel Fill Ratio
                            130 Grain VIHT N130	20.0	2109	22.5	2316	95.9%
                            130 Grain WW 748	23.0	2172	25.7	2415	95.2%
                            130 Grain IMR 4198	18.5	2131	20.7	2315	92.0%
                            130 Grain H322	21.0	2177	23.5	2400	96.5%
                            130 Grain BENCHMARK	21.5	2139	23.9	2348	96.8%
                            130 Grain RAMSHOT TAC	22.5	2144	25.0	2366	93.1%
                            130 Grain VARGET	22.5	2095	25.2	2337	103.8%
                            130 Grain RE-10X	20.0	2181	22.1	2361	93.4%
                            130 Grain BL-C(2)	23.5	2135	26.3	2394	98.2%
                            I would not use most of those powders, as they are way fast for a 130gr. The only ones I would consider above are:
                            W748
                            Varget
                            BL-C(2)

                            I would also look at Hodgdon's LeveRevolution, CFE223, N530, and N540.
                            NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                            CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                            6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                            www.AR15buildbox.com

                            Comment

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