View Full Version : TR SPG wait is BS!!
I ordered and paid for A SPG from Tactical Rifles December 2009 and still no rifle!!!! I have contacted them on several occasions and keep getting the same answer that they are waiting on parts from other makers. I am done with this crap, anybody know what wait status is on that new JP SCR-11 6.5G? Thanks for any help!
jwilson1985
11-06-2011, 03:36 AM
look at ours, jp is really only who we consider a competitor, and we have more fetchers for less money, loki wait time rite now is 2 weeks
OldCannon
11-06-2011, 08:29 PM
I was gonna say, Loki's setup can easily go toe-to-toe with JP.
Thanks for the info on the Loki! It's been almost two years and now I get this email from David Rooney at Tactical Rifles.....
"I spoke to you today. I gave you the shop number. If you are dissatisfied with our customer service, then I am not sure what to tell you. Stacy handles the accounts. Please feel free to call her after you read your contract."
I called her and she has no idea why I still don't have a rifle! This company is pure crap!!!!!!
LRRPF52
11-10-2011, 04:07 AM
Anytime someone asks for payment before a rifle exists, red flags start flying for me, and I have never dealt with custom shops in that manner. I send them my parts, tell 'em what I want, they let me know it's done, I pay, and I get my rifle. I can't imagine it any other way.
jwilson1985
11-10-2011, 06:16 AM
that is just rediculis ..2 years and then for them to say "well if you dont like our customer service" i think it would be time for a lawyer or a refund,and with the amout of time i would say both
Thanks for the info on the Loki! It's been almost two years and now I get this email from David Rooney at Tactical Rifles.....
"I spoke to you today. I gave you the shop number. If you are dissatisfied with our customer service, then I am not sure what to tell you. Stacy handles the accounts. Please feel free to call her after you read your contract."
I called her and she has no idea why I still don't have a rifle! This company is pure crap!!!!!!
jwilson1985
11-10-2011, 06:24 AM
I was gonna say, Loki's setup can easily go toe-to-toe with JP.
thank you ,i really hope you are very happy with yours ,i know you will be .i know it easy for me to say that ,but the quality of the parts and time put into the fitment of everything really maters. also loki strives on customer service and just take the extra time ,i mean even if your just have a question or wanna shoot the bull thats whats the number is for.
Texas Sheepdawg
11-10-2011, 09:24 AM
So did Tactical Rifles get bought out by Freedom Group too? When I first started reading this, I started having Flashbacks of my experience with Bushmaster this summer.
that is just rediculis ..2 years and then for them to say "well if you dont like our customer service" i think it would be time for a lawyer or a refund,and with the amout of time i would say both
Well two more of my email's and a voice mail have gone unanswered by the people at Tactical Rifles; I know they got them as they all have "read receipts" sent back to me. Just sent the third one today which might be the last one before the lawyers get involved! This really sucks hardcore! It blows my mind that they don't see the potential fallout of screwing over an active duty veteran, seems like common sense to me.
Well my efforts to get Tactical Rifles to admit their errors and refund my money were a massive failure! They basically told me tough shi!# read your contract, not once did they say "sorry" or "my bad" or make any offer to make things right. Words cannot convey how pissed I am with these people, if the damn rifle ever gets here I will always be reminded of this FUBAR every time I look at it not to mention god forbid I ever need any work done on it!!! Just my strong opinion but I say don't EVER do business with TR.
jwilson1985
11-17-2011, 03:14 AM
man that sux really!!!! i hate to hear the problems ,i realize they probably are covered with military jobs. but so are,well other companies and thats ether disclosed but shoulnt matter ..if they are that far behind dnt take orders. no reason to have crap customer service
I hear what you’re saying, it just amazes me that they don't see the future cost of loosing potential customers from well hopefully everyone that reads this and all my Army buddies! Seems clear to me refund me cost of one rifle or get a bad reputation for screwing soldiers and loose a ton of money! I don't have the money to buy another rifle so I guess I will just continue to wait.
jwilson1985
11-17-2011, 05:35 AM
ya u would be surprised i mean look at sabre defence and people still buy from them and people like that idc how good the product is im not waiting that long...or dealing with anyone that would be involved in stuff like that.thats why customers are treted as i would expect to be no matter what the business
txgunner00
11-17-2011, 01:10 PM
If you paid by credit card you might be able to dispute the charge. There's usually 3 to 6 month or so limit from date of purchase but they may have some other process for non delivery of product.
Texas Sheepdawg
11-17-2011, 01:58 PM
Well I ain't ever doing business with them and I am bookmarking this thread to send to any of my buddies who want to see it. I am already sending it to one of my USAF/ buddies and a relative in a gov agency to spread it around that direction. These guys you are dealing with do not have any business being in business if they don't realize who REALLY puts the frikkin food on their table. If i were you, I would likely be calling and reporting it as fraud. And with firearms, the FBI/ATF raise eyebrows at questionable sales.
jwilson1985
11-17-2011, 06:12 PM
as am i i will send it to my brother-in-law which is a 1lt and the rest of all my military buddys thing is ,my brother-in-law is in tight with alot of big wigs so could be a not so good..situation for TR
sneaky one
11-17-2011, 11:09 PM
Contact the triple B. == the better business bureau. They eat this stuff up for breakfast. BTW, have you actually EVER, signed your name on anything yet ? See if you can stick it back to them-legally, on the cheap, a decent lawyer should know. Find one that loves rifles-hunts-etc.
Clod Stomper
11-18-2011, 12:20 AM
I WOULD contact the Better Business Bureau, but I WOULD NOT expect much satisfaction. At least based on my experience with them. I reported a company that defrauded me. The company tells the BBB and me that they'll refund my money, which they never do. I keep complaining. The BBB says that I must be one of those people that just can't be satisfied. They seemed completely unconcerned about the situation. The BBB told me that they couldn't force the company to do anything if the co. wasn't a member.
I hope your experience is better. I wish you luck.
Will
ETA: I would definitely contact the credit card company if a cc was used to pay for the rifle. That may be more productive. The credit card co. CAN get your money back if you follow their procedures. I do believe there is a time limit as stated above, but the claim can still be made. It's just more involved. It's been several years, so I don't remember the details.
WillD
11-22-2011, 03:06 AM
Sounds like you're getting the raw deal but I have to ask, "What does the contract say?"
-Will-
The text below in bold is taken directly from my contract, tried to attach it but didn't work so well. The rest of the contract is price break down and my CC info/signature. You can see that it doesn't mention delivery times, well I really learned my lesson with these guys, never again will I trust a company. Since Tac Rifles has no honor or integrity I am forced to take costly legal measures during the holiday season no less! I was reading through my emails and came across one from Tac Rifles that said "Good news, we are 4-6 weeks from completion of your rifle!" That was Mar 23 2010!!!!! I get so pissed every time I think of this crap!
Tactical Rifles, Inc. 38439 5th Ave, #186, Zephyrhills, FL 33542 Phone: 352-458-4675 Fax: 407-264-8701 Specifications are subject to change without notice. *The above photo is for illustration purposes only * Accuracy guarantee requires proper break-in and cleaning proceedure. * Standard price includes rifle only, no accessories/options are included unless detailed in quotation *Stock configuration and colors are as detailed in quotation, and may differ from example rifle illustrated.
"Notes: Tactical Rifles will confirm receipt of deposit. Then your job will be entered into the Production Sheet. We will not give updates of construction progress under any circumstances. When your rifle is complete, you will be notified. Applied painted finishes can and do scratch and exhibit signs of wear - we cannot be responsible for such. 50% non-refundable deposit will be charged immediately upon placing order. Balance due upon completion Prices reflect a 3% discount for check/money order payment. Use of credit card will lose that 3% discount. Once notice of completion is given by us, rifles must be paid for within 10 business days or will be considered forfeit without refund Your Tactical Rifle will be shipped to your local FFL upon completion and balance of payment. Please have your dealer mail us a signed copy of their FFL (which must be current at time of shipping). Your dealer MUST reference you as the customer on the FFL or we will not be able to identify you as the buyer All changes must be in writing, no verbal changes will be accepted. Change orders are subject to a $50 per item charge and are not possible beyond 30days of signing order form"
I did contact the BBB, have not heard anything back yet. Like you say I'm not expecting much from them, but I do appreciate the advice!
Thanks
I WOULD contact the Better Business Bureau, but I WOULD NOT expect much satisfaction. At least based on my experience with them. I reported a company that defrauded me. The company tells the BBB and me that they'll refund my money, which they never do. I keep complaining. The BBB says that I must be one of those people that just can't be satisfied. They seemed completely unconcerned about the situation. The BBB told me that they couldn't force the company to do anything if the co. wasn't a member.
I hope your experience is better. I wish you luck.
Will
ETA: I would definitely contact the credit card company if a cc was used to pay for the rifle. That may be more productive. The credit card co. CAN get your money back if you follow their procedures. I do believe there is a time limit as stated above, but the claim can still be made. It's just more involved. It's been several years, so I don't remember the details.
appleseed-kdc
11-28-2011, 07:27 PM
There is always a risk paying any money in advance. I, personally, will NOT do that.
Think about it. If a company can't hold any stock, or can't get 30-days credit themselves with their suppliers, that should be a Red flag.
Yes your right, thing is most big name builders are going to want some $ down payment, might be 10% or even 50%. That's where I screwed up by assuming that Tac Rifles was good to go by being featured in several magazines over the years, I guess it's hard to get anything done when you spend most of your time advertising and sending rifles out to magazines to show off!
Dave Lauck at DL Sports is the only custom smith I will work with from now on, I have a piston 5.56AR and a 1911 from him and both are flawless with amazing customer service. He is a true American that will go above and beyond to make sure everything is squared away for the customer, and also a strong supporter of the military.
There is always a risk paying any money in advance. I, personally, will NOT do that.
Think about it. If a company can't hold any stock, or can't get 30-days credit themselves with their suppliers, that should be a Red flag.
bwaites
11-28-2011, 11:21 PM
The text below in bold is taken directly from my contract, tried to attach it but didn't work so well. The rest of the contract is price break down and my CC info/signature. You can see that it doesn't mention delivery times, well I really learned my lesson with these guys, never again will I trust a company. Since Tac Rifles has no honor or integrity I am forced to take costly legal measures during the holiday season no less! I was reading through my emails and came across one from Tac Rifles that said "Good news, we are 4-6 weeks from completion of your rifle!" That was Mar 23 2010!!!!! I get so pissed every time I think of this crap!
Tactical Rifles, Inc. 38439 5th Ave, #186, Zephyrhills, FL 33542 Phone: 352-458-4675 Fax: 407-264-8701 Specifications are subject to change without notice. *The above photo is for illustration purposes only * Accuracy guarantee requires proper break-in and cleaning proceedure. * Standard price includes rifle only, no accessories/options are included unless detailed in quotation *Stock configuration and colors are as detailed in quotation, and may differ from example rifle illustrated.
"Notes: Tactical Rifles will confirm receipt of deposit. Then your job will be entered into the Production Sheet. We will not give updates of construction progress under any circumstances. When your rifle is complete, you will be notified. Applied painted finishes can and do scratch and exhibit signs of wear - we cannot be responsible for such. 50% non-refundable deposit will be charged immediately upon placing order. Balance due upon completion Prices reflect a 3% discount for check/money order payment. Use of credit card will lose that 3% discount. Once notice of completion is given by us, rifles must be paid for within 10 business days or will be considered forfeit without refund Your Tactical Rifle will be shipped to your local FFL upon completion and balance of payment. Please have your dealer mail us a signed copy of their FFL (which must be current at time of shipping). Your dealer MUST reference you as the customer on the FFL or we will not be able to identify you as the buyer All changes must be in writing, no verbal changes will be accepted. Change orders are subject to a $50 per item charge and are not possible beyond 30days of signing order form"
How serious are you? It is against credit card companies rules to offer a cash discount. If they have the ability to process credit card transactions, they CANNOT charge more to do so. This contract is a HUGE red flag to me. I would never sign such a document, but I understand others doing so, especially if they offer a product you specifically desire. Most states have a "delivery contract" which means that the seller must deliver within some reasonable amount of time.
If you paid a big down payment, it would make sense to pay a lawyer to review the contract and make a call to them requesting a refund. He will know the laws pertaining to interstate commerce and what you can expect. Paying a lawyer a couple hundred bucks to retrieve a couple thousand is worth it, at least to me.
If you want to play dirty, you could call your credit card company, point out that this company is charging a premium for credit card transactions, and see if the company will go to bat for your money based on that.
BUT...a lawyer may be your best friend in this situation, as hard as it is to say that!
leopard6.5
11-29-2011, 12:17 AM
Colt: Might I make a suggestion.
Being in Florida, there is a large law firm based in Orlando named Morgan & Morgan.
One of their ads they run here says that if someone is having trouble getting satisfaction with a company, they( the person with the problem) can use Morgan & Morgan's name to effectively threaten the company with( say you will be contacting Morgan & Morgan if you don't get satisfaction) if the company doesn't give you satisfaction( either the gun or your money back).
Morgan & Morgan has a big reputation here and based their business on fighting for the little guy against corporations.
The owner is also a huge supporter and contributor to Democratic( I know. I know.) causes so they may love to go after an " evil firearm manufacturer".
Who knows it may be worth a try as it sounds like you're out of any of the polite options anyways.
Good Luck either way.
Lee
leopard: Roger that, thanks for the info!
RStewart
11-29-2011, 12:59 AM
If you have an email from them in March 2010 saying your rifle was 4-6 weeks out, doesn't that imply a delivery date? And since they did not deliver during that time frame, does that constitute a breach of contract on their part? Just wondering..
noone
11-29-2011, 02:50 AM
Lawyer, Lawyer, Lawyer! I would also consider contacting some of the magazines that had write ups on the company and see if they can help by either putting the arm on the company, or by perhaps doing updates on the guns, delivery, customer service etc.
appleseed-kdc
11-29-2011, 09:30 PM
How serious are you? It is against credit card companies rules to offer a cash discount. \
Actually, its not.
http://usa.visa.com/personal/using_visa/checkout_fees/index.html
http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/BM-Entire_Manual_public.pdf para 5.11.12
Its against their rules to charge extra for credit card payments. A bit of 6 and half dozen, but rules is rules.
I hope he payed by credit card.
Small claims court. The figure depends on your State. In Florida its:-
http://www.flcourts.org/gen_public/family/self_help/smallclaims.shtml
Tactical Rifles Inc. Florida corporation registration.
http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?action=DETFIL&inq_doc_number=P04000091979&inq_came_from=NAMFWD&cor_web_names_seq_number=0000&names_name_ind=N&names_cor_number=&names_name_seq=&names_name_ind=&names_comp_name=TACTICALRIFLES&names_filing_type=
bwaites
11-29-2011, 10:24 PM
Actually, its not.
http://usa.visa.com/personal/using_visa/checkout_fees/index.html
http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchant/pdf/BM-Entire_Manual_public.pdf para 5.11.12
Its against their rules to charge extra for credit card payments. A bit of 6 and half dozen, but rules is rules.
I hope he payed by credit card.
Small claims court. The figure depends on your State. In Florida its:-
http://www.flcourts.org/gen_public/family/self_help/smallclaims.shtml
Tactical Rifles Inc. Florida corporation registration.
http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?action=DETFIL&inq_doc_number=P04000091979&inq_came_from=NAMFWD&cor_web_names_seq_number=0000&names_name_ind=N&names_cor_number=&names_name_seq=&names_name_ind=&names_comp_name=TACTICALRIFLES&names_filing_type=
Actually, the courts have held that offering a discount for cash while accepting credit cards IS effectively charging more for credit card use, and is a violation of the contract. BUT....it depends on location.
The better choice is a lawyer and/or small claims court.
bwaites & appleseed: Thank you very much for the help, I am trying multiple angles to hopefully get this thing resolved. Will advise outcome!
txgunner00
12-01-2011, 12:53 PM
Best of luck to you. It's unfortunate we have companies in our industry that think this is OK. This sounds a lot like what got John Ceiner charged with fraud recently.
appleseed-kdc
12-03-2011, 01:24 AM
This is ironic. Note its the future 'Guns & Weapons February 2012 issue.
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/guns-and-weapons/tactical-rifles-spg-65-grendel-2/
jwilson1985
12-03-2011, 01:56 AM
ya mine missed that slot by a month for my rifle dangit oh well we will be in 6 more...but i really hope your issue gets resolved ..its a pathetic situation on their part
Ya I was super pissed when I picked that issue up yesterday at the PX! Makes me sick when the first sentence in the article is "If I were to use only one word in describing the company Tactical Rifles, that word would be driven." I can think of a few different words to describe them!!!! Wonder if Guns & Weapons is aware of the piss poor customer service and insane wait that I have received? Hmmm?
I also got a reply thru BBB from Tac Rifles, same old story: "His comments to the BBB are all about obtaining monies that he is not due. He signed a contract that clearly states delivery time is approximate and subject to the supply of components from third party vendors. He is aware that the cartridge only recently gained SAAMI spec and that different ammo specification situation had to be rectified within the industry prior to rifles construction moving forward from a safety perspective."
This guy never stops amazing me!
This is ironic. Note its the future 'Guns & Weapons February 2012 issue.
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/guns-and-weapons/tactical-rifles-spg-65-grendel-2/
Well lawyer can't even seem to get any results from Tactical Rifles; all they said was to expect a delivery by Christmas! Obviously that didn't work out either, no word and no rifle. I can't afford to keep throwing $ at lawyers during the holiday season. STAY AWAY FROM TACTICAL RIFLES!!! If anyone goes to SHOT make sure and say hello to those bastards for me.
LRRPF52
01-02-2012, 06:13 AM
This is ironic. Note its the future 'Guns & Weapons February 2012 issue.
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/guns-and-weapons/tactical-rifles-spg-65-grendel-2/
From the article:
"Upon closer inspection, the SPG has been so refined that it is more than an AR."
Yet another reason why I don't buy gun rags anymore. Maybe a copy of SGN once a year, or SAR.
jwilson1985
01-02-2012, 06:20 AM
ill say hi for you ..and maybe a lil more...
LRRPF52
01-02-2012, 06:25 AM
I don't know if I'll have time to stop by, but I'll be there. Not looking for any confrontation on the SHOT floor really. Maybe they have an app for ID'ing scheister businesses...
Variable
01-02-2012, 07:17 AM
From the article:
"Upon closer inspection, the SPG has been so refined that it is more than an AR."
Yet another reason why I don't buy gun rags anymore. Maybe a copy of SGN once a year, or SAR.
Ditto. The gun rags are such pure crap these days, it's hard to glean anything useful at all from them.
txgunner00
01-03-2012, 02:03 PM
Well lawyer can't even seem to get any results from Tactical Rifles; all they said was to expect a delivery by Christmas! Obviously that didn't work out either, no word and no rifle. I can't afford to keep throwing $ at lawyers during the holiday season. STAY AWAY FROM TACTICAL RIFLES!!! If anyone goes to SHOT make sure and say hello to those bastards for me.
Unbelievable... such arrogance is sickening.
Roguer
02-27-2012, 02:33 AM
Hope there was a good resolution.
LightningII
03-01-2012, 04:10 PM
I saw that magazine on the stand; I thumbed through it, looked at the price of the rifle, and figured I'd just order from AA when I'm ready.
did you pay 100% for the rifle from TR?
txgunner00
03-01-2012, 04:19 PM
Any updates?
noone
03-01-2012, 08:40 PM
I had a complete custom built by Defiance Machine in Montana. All they wanted was a modest deposit (couple hundred) on an action that would end up costing around $1250. They delivered on time, let me know how much more I owed, and I received the action within a week of them receiving my final payment. They quoted me 4 weeks to make a complete custom bolt action where I specify which side the ports, bolt handle, type of tang, thickness of recoil lug, in short about 30 things I had to specify.
They still delivered on time, and even added a custom serial number for me.
That is how I like to do business. I don't mind paying steep prices if the service is that good. I get irked when I get quoted one delivery time, then get strung along because some vendors think you are trapped once they have your parts.
Well I finally got the rifle FEB 24th only after they tried telling me that I still owed them for the multicam coating! Which wasn't true of course, had to back through bank statements and show the amount was paid in full a couple YEARS ago!! Then they have the balls to act like they are giving me the camo for free even though I showed them the exact amount charged on my bank statement! Anyway the rifle is here, looks great but I had to leave for a few weeks training so have not shot it yet. Even if the rifle turns out to be awesome I will still be reminded of the extreme BS I went through getting it every time I look at the damn thing. My opinion has not changed DO NOT DO BUISENESS WITH TR. Thanks for hearing my bitch sesion:)
noone: Good call on Defiance Machine, awesome people and even better actions!
bwaites
04-07-2012, 03:39 PM
Looks great! What BiPod is that?
Thanks, it's A GG&G XDS Bipod, still waiting on backordered Atlas LW-17. Also put a Accu-Shot BT12 monopod on the PRS stock, I think it's going to work out good.
On another note I just preordered a Leupold MK6 1-6X20mm (5.56 CMR-W) with Larue LT-104 for my DL Sports AR, so pretty excited to see how both these work out! Love that D&L stuff!!
Variable
04-07-2012, 11:24 PM
Well I finally got the rifle FEB 24th only after they tried telling me that I still owed them for the multicam coating! Which wasn't true of course, had to back through bank statements and show the amount was paid in full a couple YEARS ago!! Then they have the balls to act like they are giving me the camo for free even though I showed them the exact amount charged on my bank statement! Anyway the rifle is here, looks great but I had to leave for a few weeks training so have not shot it yet. Even if the rifle turns out to be awesome I will still be reminded of the extreme BS I went through getting it every time I look at the damn thing. My opinion has not changed DO NOT DO BUISENESS WITH TR. Thanks for hearing my bitch sesion:)
noone: Good call on Defiance Machine, awesome people and even better actions!
Glad you finally got it! I also know what you mean. After almost nine years I finally got my Shrike, but I just get mad every time I look at it. You have a nice looking rifle, and I hope it shoots really well for you!
WOW NINE YEARS!! Your a better man than me, it took every scrap of self control to not go crazy waiting two years.
Variable
04-08-2012, 12:29 AM
WOW NINE YEARS!! Your a better man than me, it took every scrap of self control to not go crazy waiting two years.
Hehe, well after the first five or so years you kind of forget about it until someone asks you.LOL I'd have gotten a refund from them (they would at least do that), but there wasn't any better game in town to move to so I just tried not to think about it. It still definitely killed the buzz though.
txgunner00
04-08-2012, 03:09 PM
At least it looks nice. Hopefully it shoots good for you.
BjornF16
04-08-2012, 06:45 PM
Even if the rifle turns out to be awesome I will still be reminded of the extreme BS I went through getting it every time I look at the damn thing.
Just let us know if you can't bear looking at it...I'm sure one of us would be happy to remove your misery! :D
WillD
04-09-2012, 07:54 PM
I'm glad the issue is finally "resolved", I sure hope your new rifle shoots for you!
Please let us know if they really did deliver.
-Will-
I'm glad the issue is finally "resolved", I sure hope your new rifle shoots for you!
Please let us know if they really did deliver.
-Will-
Hopefully next weekend I will get some range time, will let you know how it goes.
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