Whats Happening with 6.5G SAAMI Certification

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  • philmurphy

    Whats Happening with 6.5G SAAMI Certification

    There was a lot of posting about SAAMI certification on other boards around the time of the SHOT Show. Now there is not a peep. Would Bill Alexander care to provide additional information about SAAMI progress, and potential road blocks?

    Phil
  • bwaites
    Moderator
    • Mar 2011
    • 4445

    #2
    Yes, there was, a lot of it initiated by you. It's also been answered elsewhere, most noticeably on the AR15.com Alexander Arms Industry Forum where you asked essentially the same question. Here is AA's answer for those who haven't seen it:

    "AA has never been through this process before, so it is a new experience. The Hornady people have much more experience in how this progresses.

    The process is continuing. The technical evaluation is apparently satisfactorily completed. Further discussion and evaluation of the remaining questions is in progress.

    There are past examples of patented or trademarked cartridges to act as templates for the Grendel, so it is expected that the issues will be eventually resolved to everyones satisfaction."
    Last edited by bwaites; 03-24-2011, 12:45 AM.

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    • longdayjake

      #3
      Well, heres hoping it happens.

      Comment

      • philmurphy

        #4
        Originally posted by bwaites View Post
        Yes, there was, a lot of it initiated by you. It's also been answered elsewhere, most noticeably on the AR15.com Alexander Arms Industry Forum where you asked essentially the same question. Here is AA's answer for those who haven't seen it:

        "AA has never been through this process before, so it is a new experience. The Hornady people have much more experience in how this progresses.

        The process is continuing. The technical evaluation is apparently satisfactorily completed. Further discussion and evaluation of the remaining questions is in progress.

        There are past examples of patented or trademarked cartridges to act as templates for the Grendel, so it is expected that the issues will be eventually resolved to everyones satisfaction."
        Bill,

        The reason that I am asking again is because they only answer that I have received from AA is quoted above. BTW, are you the AA spokesperson? What are the issues? Who holds those issues? Are any discussions taking place? At what stage are the discussions? Is there When will this process be completed?

        Phil

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        • #5
          Heck, as a new entrant into this caliber, with an AA chambered barrel, I just like to see a precise drawing of the chamber and cartridge dimensions to gauge my reloads by. I usually associate that with a SAAMI print.
          I have neither the time, nor interest in the politics behind it all.

          Hoot

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          • longdayjake

            #6
            Thats quite a naughty emoticon. Never seen that one before. Anyway, my guess is that AA doesn't say much about it because they don't want to. I have resigned myself to finding out when they finally decide to talk.

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            • #7
              Hoot,

              If you really want the chamber dimensions, why not do a chamber cast of your chamber? Even IF SAAMI ever does standardize the cartridge, your cartridge could still have some unique dimensions. I load for both an AA Grendel chamber, and a 6.5CSS chamber without any issues, and without a chamber casting. Another way to get actual chamber dimensions is to pay for the licensing from Alexander Arms, and buy your own reamer.

              I get the impression that you may be more interested in something other than merely getting true chamber dimensions. Although I'm not quite sure what it is, or how you would benefit from it.

              But best of luck to you in your search in any case.

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              • longdayjake

                #8
                I doubt hoot really wants to steal Grendel intellectual property. If he wanted to do his own version of the grendel he could just get designs from LBC.

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                • philmurphy

                  #9
                  Originally posted by noone View Post
                  Hoot,

                  If you really want the chamber dimensions, why not do a chamber cast of your chamber? Even IF SAAMI ever does standardize the cartridge, your cartridge could still have some unique dimensions. I load for both an AA Grendel chamber, and a 6.5CSS chamber without any issues, and without a chamber casting. Another way to get actual chamber dimensions is to pay for the licensing from Alexander Arms, and buy your own reamer.

                  I get the impression that you may be more interested in something other than merely getting true chamber dimensions. Although I'm not quite sure what it is, or how you would benefit from it.

                  But best of luck to you in your search in any case.
                  If you really want an accurate chamber drawing, you had better get a cast of the lastest Hornady factory loaded 123 Amax. I'm asking Lothar Walther to fit the chamber to the ammo.

                  Phil
                  Last edited by Guest; 03-25-2011, 11:10 PM.

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                  • #10
                    I'm an Engineer. I am afflicted with the need for knowledge. I have a barrel and I'd like to know if the chamber is the right spec. I have a die and I'd like to know if it was made to the right spec. I have brass and I'd like to know if they are the manufactured to the right spec. There is no subterfuge in the quest for knowledge. I have cerrosafe and can cast my chamber if I want. The dimensions it would provide do not tell me if it is made to spec. You will not see me in a Moen Faucet commercial asking an architect to design a house around it. I have neither the purpose, nor wallet for high-buck, custom barrels. I am just a Walter Mitty kind of guy, passing the time until this god awful winter weather recedes enough for getting my rifle range fix.

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                    • bwaites
                      Moderator
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 4445

                      #11
                      I think AA's answer stands on its own. When there is more to say, Hornady will probably be the one to release that information, since they are actually the company that submitted the cartridge to SAAMI.

                      There are hurdles to be cleared, not the least of which is protection of the Grendel trademark, while allowing SAAMI members to load/chamber the cartridge. The biggest issue is making sure that the specifications don't get changed AND used with the trademark.

                      It should be noted that AA also has posted this on their AR15 Forum:

                      royalty free license – that is there is no cost. Once the license has been issued, simply contact the reamer manufacturer, they will confirm the license and sell you the requested reamer. We work with many manufacturers – both large high volume manufacturers and many small custom shops. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us.

                      That completely contradicts what people have said about Alexander Arms and their hold on the cartridges. It's a royalty free license.

                      Hoot, I understand your desire to know the actual dimensions. Whoever cut the chamber should be able to tell you which drawing they came from. If it is AA, then it is the spec AA Grendel chamber. Those dimensions will be released, I expect, when SAAMI finished certification.

                      It's not as cut and dried as any of us would like. The AAC cartridge was also submitted, and that process hasn't been completed either.
                      Last edited by bwaites; 03-25-2011, 02:01 AM.

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                      • #12
                        If Hoot took a chamber cast of the chamber, and of the die, and an inverse cast of his ammo, he should be able to figure out what the dimensions are of the three castings.

                        I sort of still think that the most relevant one is the chamber cast, perhaps a fired case to compare to loaded rounds would give him sufficient information to make his comparisons. That wouldn't tell him which chamber he has without the drawings, but he could at least figure out what the dimensions are on HIS chamber.

                        Even reamers can be made incorrectly, or wear out and thereby change dimensions. I always thought that regardless of what the chamber dimensions are supposed to be, it will eventually be the actual dimensions of my chamber that I will have to work with. I guess that was my primary point about casting his chamber. Regardless of what is supposed to be, his chamber is how it turned out.

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