Electronic Triggers for Bullpups?

I've been thinking about using a Dixie Consolidated bullpup stock for the 10/22 to play with some ideas. The DC stock is an aluminum shell that clamps to the barrel of the 10/22. If I go forward with this, I'll use a Green Mountain "Aero" barrel, that floats inside a .920 sleeve. That will minimize the impact of the stock's barrel clamps on barrel harmonics.

I'd like to use the stock to play with the idea of an electronic trigger. (I'll research the legal ramifications first - I spend a lot of time in 26 USC and regs at work). I know some free rifles and free pistols use electronic triggers (not to mention lots of air guns and paintball markers).

The DC trigger is supposed to be better than the Muzzlelite trigger, but not up there with a standard trigger. I'm thinking one could replace the linkage with a switch, battery pack and power regulation circuitry in the pistol grip assembly, and a rotary solenoid bolted to one side or the other of the DC stock housing over the trigger guard. The shaft would protrude through the stock housing and turn a cam in the trigger guard to actuate the trigger.

Any thoughts on this?

Was not there a rifle made that used an electric impulse to trigger the primer? Maybe yours would be a good application if it works.

Voere makes or made rifles that use caseless ammo with electronic ignition. In that case, they aren't merely actuating a mechanical trigger with an electrical device. Electrical current applied to the cartridge ignites the propellant. IIRC the trigger/switch is the only mechanical aspect of the ignition system.

I've been thinking about using a Dixie Consolidated bullpup stock for the 10/22 to play with some ideas. The DC stock is an aluminum shell that clamps to the barrel of the 10/22.

I'd like to use the stock to play with the idea of an electronic trigger. (I'll research the legal ramifications first - I spend a lot of time in 26 USC and regs at work).

Any thoughts on this?
To state the obvious, it'd add to weight and complexity, as well as making you dependent on battery power in order to fire the rifle.

Only legal ramification I can think of is that the authorities would probably want your circuitry designed with safeguards to prevent full-auto operation.

Remington had a rifle that had an electronic trigger. You pulled it and it sent an electric impluse through the rifle and to the primer. The charge set off the special primer.

It reduced lock time to almost 0 (.0000027 seconds, actually). Huge flop.

Hunters did not want a rifle that relied on batteries and special Ammo that was not easy to find. And now if you own one you can't get ammo or reloading supplies for it due to the special primer.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/special_runs/2004/model_700_etronX.asp

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_46/ai_59281214

Remington had a rifle that had an electronic trigger. You pulled it and it sent an electric impluse through the rifle and to the primer. The charge set off the special primer.

It reduced lock time to almost 0 (.0000027 seconds, actually). Huge flop.

Hunters did not want a rifle that relied on batteries and special Ammo that was not easy to find. And now if you own one you can't get ammo or reloading supplies for it due to the special primer.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/special_runs/2004/model_700_etronX.asp

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_3_46/ai_59281214

I assume the rifle didn't need a firing pin either, so less complexity there. You may have noticed that you can buy flexible, rollup strips of solar cells now as COTS items. Put a NiMH or lithium battery in the stock and embedd some solar cells in the stock and it will go forever. Other advantages are the possibility of biometric lockouts. A fingerprint reader is about $30 now for laptop computers - available at Staples or Office Depot. Down the road a scope with a retinal scan is a possibility.

For full-auto fire a small magnet in the bolt cycling past a wire winding will charge every battery in the squad or platoon and control the cyclical rate to boot. For expeditionalry forces, it's the future.

http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/military/armytents/index.htm

To be clear, my main interest here is to create a bullpup with a decent trigger pull.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I wouldn't advocate a tactical application of electro-mechanical fire control, unless you could switch to an all-mechanical backup. IMO, the only people who couldn't live with FN F2000 trigger pull are designated marksmen or snipers. I haven't handled one yet, but from what I've read, they are "good enough" for most purposes.

OTOH, troops are dependent on lots of consumables in the field. In theory at least, modern rechargeables could be made to last a long tim by using Solidpoint's idea, above, or thermoelectric technology to convert waste heat from the barrel into juice. Admittedly, that would add even more complexity, though.

The trigger on your SureFire flashlight that gives you a positive ID on your target before you pull the trigger, and the trigger on the IR illuminator you need to illuminate your targets and ID them at night are just as critical as igniting the primer - unless you don't care about shooting your own guys in battle or innocent civilians in LE work. We are already there my friend and putting another egg in that basket and then making the basket better by having a coherent and well considered power management system on the weapon would make it MORE reliable. As a dozen or more posts on the Combat thread pointed out, the limits on the use of long range weapons are largely those of target discovery and recognition - which are in turn a function of sufficient optics to fill these requirements. There is no turning back.

I assume the rifle didn't need a firing pin either, so less complexity there. You may have noticed that you can buy flexible, rollup strips of solar cells now as COTS items. Put a NiMH or lithium battery in the stock and embedd some solar cells in the stock and it will go forever. Other advantages are the possibility of biometric lockouts. A fingerprint reader is about $30 now for laptop computers - available at Staples or Office Depot. Down the road a scope with a retinal scan is a possibility.

For full-auto fire a small magnet in the bolt cycling past a wire winding will charge every battery in the squad or platoon and control the cyclical rate to boot. For expeditionalry forces, it's the future.

http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/military/armytents/index.htm

Oh it had a firing pin.

When they first came out I ordered one for a fellow that fell for all that marketing hype. I tried to convince him to stay away from that money trap and get a regular VS 700 right off the wall. I tried my darnest to sell him basically the same conventional rifle (VS 700) for $700 less, but a fool and his money soon were departed. When it finally arrived, needless to say he was disappointed in the groups. He had me to skim bed it, I even pulled ammo and reloaded it with known loads that worked in my basically stock VS 700, it still was an expensive poor excuse for a battery.

Others I ran across on forums back then had similar experiences. The last ones I saw for sale several years ago were being blown out at $499, NIB.


For the masses, it was a poor idea 10 yrs ago and it's a poor idea now.

The British played with an all electric lockwork system for the L85A1 several years back. They called it the EIW.

Electronic Individual Weapon (EIW): A Concept Update (http://web.archive.org/web/20011111090123/http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/arms/hay.pdf)

FWIW: S&W has several patents involving electronic lockwork for semi-autos and revolvers. They appear to be part of a "Smart Gun" program.

http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/default.php/cPath/1034_1567_1038

Brunton makes high-end stuff so this looks to be very reliable. They make rolls of solar cells too with the longest being 4 or 6ft.

You could try and use a hydraulic linkage instead of the mechanical one. Get a couple of tiny hydraulic cylinders, maybe the smallest syringe you can find. connect with tubing and some fluid of your choice. Though the syringe might impart enough friction with the seals that it would cause too much force to be required. But then you can always tinker with leverage and the diameter of each cylinder to vary the travel and force put out by each. It might turn out to work nicely if you could find small enough components, and it would be much simpler than an electronic system.

try tinkering with some of the high reliability cable and hydrolic bicycle and motorcycle break grips and cables.

A pizoelectric system would be more reliable than the battery and wire systems