Grendel build for an accurate target rifle.

[bsears10]

Good day gentlemen. I am new to reloading and have cut my teeth on the 10 mm and 45 cal. pistol cartridges. Now I am interested in buying a rifle that I can enjoy for target shooting and deer hunting. I am not interested in a tactical rifle so much as a possible long range shooter that I can keep a sight picture on while producing a follow up shot. I had considered other 6.5 caliber rifle cartridges, but the gredel caught my attention. Here is what I see: Less recoil than a 260, fits in an AR-15 platform (lighter more mobile platform), efficient cartridge, reloading components available. I contacted GA precision and the guy I talked to said he competes with an AR-15 in 6.5 grendel out to 1000 yards. So here is my question. Should I have them make me a rifle or buy an already built one? I have a tendency to upgrade my guns for better performance, but my budget is only about $2500.00. I want to squeeze out all possible accurace from the gun without going past my budget. What do you all think?

[tacticalgunner]

they're not hard to build, and IMO you can build a hell of a lot better rifle for the money. and with $2500 I think you could build all you need and have $500+ to spend on optics.

[JohnOD]

GAP builds a fantastic product... so do some other folks. Typically a long range target gun is heavy with a longer barrel & high magnification scope. A deer hunting AR would be lighter and more compact (at least that's what I like for the way I hunt with my Grendel). I would put a lot of thought and research into exactly how you will use the gun before spending that kind of $. My Grendel started out at over 13 lbs scoped. I carried it in the field and killed stuff with it but it wasn't much fun. After putting it on a diet its down to 8 1/4# (with optics) much more comfortable to carry and shoots groups like a varmint rifle. I'd venture to say for $2,500 you could build a 1/2 MOA target upper and a good deer hunting upper then put together a lower with a great trigger in it.

[bsears10]

I hope so . I am going to call GA precision and see what they have to say once I have the money for my build in January. On top of the build I would like to see what they can do to match fit the parts for accuracy. I imagine that would cost alot in labor and expertise, but if it is worth it for the gains I could get I am in. It is a philosophy I have adopted toward my gun purchases. I don't own alot of guns, but the ones I do own I want to be done right the first time. If you are going to drop a fat wad of cash why not dump a bit more to own something that isn't half done right.

[RangerRick]

You can build your own, but if want a competition accurate rifle, there are a lot of tricks that you might not be aware of if this is your first build. If you want to learn, that would be a good way to do it. If you tend to tinker with it it you can probably tune it up if you get good quality parts.

When you say "long range" what does that mean for you? If you want to go out past 600 yards you probably want a 24 inch barrel. But that's a little ungainly to tote around in the woods.

If you put a good muzzle brake on it, you'll be able to self spot. I have a WCI bake and a 20 inch barrel and I can self spot for followup shots very well. There again a longer, heavier barrel will mean less recoil, but it just depends on how much you want to carry.

RR

[jwilson1985]

ya $2500 would build a lot of rifle my friend. theres alot of people, info and pics to help with your decision .. and welcome to the forum

[bsears10]

You can build your own, but if want a competition accurate rifle, there are a lot of tricks that you might not be aware of if this is your first build. If you want to learn, that would be a good way to do it. If you tend to tinker with it it you can probably tune it up if you get good quality parts.

When you say "long range" what does that mean for you? If you want to go out past 600 yards you probably want a 24 inch barrel. But that's a little ungainly to tote around in the woods.

If you put a good muzzle brake on it, you'll be able to self spot. I have a WCI bake and a 20 inch barrel and I can self spot for followup shots very well. There again a longer, heavier barrel will mean less recoil, but it just depends on how much you want to carry.

RR

Honestly I do not know what I really want. I don't break away from my studies that much but would like to reload and shoot some compatition if reasonable in the future. Hunts are a possability, but not right now. So mainly just punchin paper and hamming up on some of the possibilities for some friendly compatition. I am 5'8" so a barrel that is too long won't suit me for field use, but I would like to have the ability to take my rifle out to its limit some day. I figure that there wouldn't be any problem having more than one barrel for field/ longer range target use.

[bsears10]

Oh yeah... long range is hard to say. I live in Kansas City, Kansas... ummm where the ranges aren't built for long range. I think I would have to travel a bit to find a decent range. This gun is on my list even though I won't be able to shoot it decently without some travel time.

[Sojorboy]

[QUOTE=RangerRick;18087]You can build your own, but if want a competition accurate rifle, there are a lot of tricks that you might not be aware of.....

RR, I'm new to the AR platform as well, so I have decided to buy my first Grendel and build myself a second. What are some of the more important "tricks" you speak of ? Thanks SB

[bsears10]

Well with pistols you can get a Match target barrel that has larger deninsions where it locks up against the slide and lower portion of the frame.. You have to file it down to make a tight custom fit per gun since standard barrels slides and frames are made with less stringent tolorances usually. If you take a rifle like a standard AK-47 and shake it it sounds like a baby rattle for the same reason as the barrel in a pistol I imagine. Can't you blueprint a rifle like you do a car engine too?

[bwaites]

Well with pistols you can get a Match target barrel that has larger deninsions where it locks up against the slide and lower portion of the frame.. You have to file it down to make a tight custom fit per gun since standard barrels slides and frames are made with less stringent tolorances usually. If you take a rifle like a standard AK-47 and shake it it sounds like a baby rattle for the same reason as the barrel in a pistol I imagine. Can't you blueprint a rifle like you do a car engine too?

You can blueprint rifles, but that is generally only done to VERY high dollar target bolt actions.

I have assembled AR's and have some knowledge of the things needed to really tighten them up for accuracy, but LRRPF52 is really someone better suited to describing some of those things. That said, trying to do them on the first one you assemble would require someone knowledgeable standing at your shoulder to guide you through the process if you hoped to get the best results.

The things that will get you best accuracy out of any AR are pretty well known: Appropriate attention to torque specs, appropriate attention to quality parts.

By far the most critical will be choosing a good barrel. The best barrels out there for the Grendel are probably Shilen button barrels right this instant, with the progressive twist cut barrels used by Templar Consulting in the same group. Alexander Arms has, or will have shortly, a new cut rifle barrel, and with Bill Alexanders attention to detail, especially as far as barrels are concerned, I suspect that those barrels will also be very accurate. Shilen barrels have won multiple National level matches, so I would be happy with one of them.

Once you have assembled a group of quality parts, then attention to putting them together square becomes the only real issue.

NOW....that said, if I was wanting the best build for long range accuracy, I would be buying a rifle built by Alexander Arms. They've been at it the longest, and Bill Alexander knows what he is doing. That is MY feeling. I know that Templar also builds great stuff. I've read online that Loki builds great stuff, and at least one of the members here is sold on their product. Precision Firearms also have a group here that is very happy.

My point is that building your own and trying for super accuracy means that you are your own R&D department, test department, and Quality Control. If you are someone like LRRPF52, you can be 100% certain that you will get a good product. But most of us can't be that certain, and its is much easier to let someone else build it to get that quality.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Hey, BS10, great to have ya!

John

[RangerRick]

[QUOTE=Sojorboy;18119]

You can build your own, but if want a competition accurate rifle, there are a lot of tricks that you might not be aware of.....

RR, I'm new to the AR platform as well, so I have decided to buy my first Grendel and build myself a second. What are some of the more important "tricks" you speak of ? Thanks SB

Hi BSears10 and Sojorboy,

I'm far from an expert but here are a few ideas.

Be sure the barrel extension mates perfectly to the upper and is aligned with the bolt carrier slot. If not it will introduce variability. You can true it yourself, but you need a special jig. Get a good quality upper and you won't need to deal with that.

If you want to use multiple barrels take a look at the Templar Fast Rail. Use a low profile gas block if you go this route so you can get the rail off without removing the gas block.

Be sure to mount the gas block very firmly with removable Loctite. If you have a gas leak it can introduce variablility. Learn how to properly line up the gas port in the barrel and the gas block.

Make sure the part of the gas tube that goes in the bolt carrier key is aligned so it doesn't rub.

Be sure the barrel is torqued down properly. You can find lots of descriptions of how to do this on the net.

Get a good vise block to hold the upper when you are working on it. Use a block to grip the barrel when you you install/remove muzzle devices so you don't torque or bend the barrel and extension.

What else guys?

Some other guys have already made some great suggestions on here, but here are a few suggestions about parts in order of importance:

1. Get a good barrel of whatever length suits you. Extra length doesn't give you more accuracy, just more velocity which helps with windage at longer ranges. Windage becomes dominant at longer range.

2. High quality upper. If the upper isn't perfectly flush to the barrel extension, accuracy will suffer.

3. Floating hand guard.

4. High quality scope mount. If you have great glass on a crappy mount, you wasted your money. If you want to shoot long range getting a mount with 10 or 20 MOA of down angle built in will give you more elevation adjustment. I like LaRue mounts. The LT158 has 10 MOA of down angle, and is cantilevered forward so you can move the scope to the proper position so you don't have to tilt your head sideways to get it down to scope level.

5. High quality scope. If you can't spend at least $800 on a scope, get a non zooming scope of good quality to save money. If you use a good 8x or 10X glass that is repeatable, you can get by for $300 or $400. You can easily add a better, zooming glass later when you get more money.

To save money for a better glass, put a cheaper stock and grip on it, use a cheaper hand guard (as long as it's floating), don't worry about a fancy paint job, use a sand bag instead of a bipod, put off buying backup iron sights. Those things won't help your accuracy. They are nice to have, but you can put them on later when you can afford it.

Some guys want a HOO-AH looking rifle. Impress your friends with how it shoots, not how it looks.

6. Good trigger, I like the Geissele, there are other good ones out there.

7. Good ammo. If all the above are top notch and you use crappy bullets, you wasted your money. If you reload, don't be discouraged if your accuracy sucks at first. It takes a little tinkering to get the optimum load for your particular rifle. It also takes a little while to get your reloading gear adjusted where everything works right for the Grendel.

I'm sure a lot of guys on here will dispute some of this, or the order of importance. Many of them know a lot more than I do about this. You can listen to it all and make your own choices.

Bring it on guys!

RR

[bsears10]

THanks for the input guys. I am not going to attempt a build myself. I can't put the time into it because of my studies. I am going to take my time and consult with the Alexander Arms as well as GA Precision when I get some cash together. Barrel length is a variable I will need to consider since I am 5'8" I don't want a barrel dragging the ground. We'll see what both companies say about barrels and other parts and I will run their suggestions by you all. THanks for so much input.

[bsears10]

On a different note, I just got back from the range with some handloads for my Glock 10 mm. I am very satisfied with the Bar-Sto barrel I purchased and am now trying to tune some loads that will work well with Berry's plated bullets. I am using 180g. truncated hollow points and winchester 231. I like how clean the powder burns but have yet to find a powder to call my favorite for this setup. Let me tell you though, if you have a standard glock barrel watch for pressure signs if you load em hotter. I personally load for target practice so there isn't really a problem.