Load dilemna

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  • Load dilemna

    Hi folks,

    I have a dilemna & I'm looking for suggestions. Background: I have a 1000yd rifle class coming up in 3 weeks & need at least 125rds. I have a "new to me" 6.5 grendel Noveske upper with a 24" Satern cut rifle upper. I need to build a load in this short period of time before the class that might work for that distance. If I had plenty of time, I could get this done but the reality is I will have time to make ONE trip to the range before the class. Hopefully leaving enough time to order more bullets & get them loaded before the class.

    I am taking suggestions/opinions on what I should load or maybe I should just order some Hornady ammo & go on.

    This upper came with a pile of bullets that I can try & then order more, & hopefully get here in time for the class. This is the list of bullets:
    20 107gr SMK
    26 120gr swift poly tip
    141 120gr Nosler ballistic tip
    200 120gr SMK
    143 123gr SMK
    100 120gr Barnes TTSX
    100 130gr Swift Scorocco poly tip

    On hand I have Tac powder as well as some V.V. N135. I've got once fired in this chamber, Lapua brass with CCI, Winchester, & Wolf primers available as well.

    Thanks for any opinions. I will not hold anyone resposible if they make a suggestion & it doesn't work out.

    MLM
  • bwaites
    Moderator
    • Mar 2011
    • 4445

    #2
    I would try 27 grains of TAC under the 123 SMK's, working up to 28.8 or so.

    Also the same under the 120 SMK's. This bullet shoots well out of most Grendels, but might not have the BC legs to get to 1000 yards.

    107 SMK's over 27-28 grains of 135.

    Nosler 120 BT's over the same as the SMK's.

    Be careful working up the loads as you increase powder.

    The TTSX's are a good hunting round, but really have a hard time out past 5-600. Some people have had good luck with the 130 Sciroccos at long range, but I have no experience with them or their loads and I've never heard anything about anyone using the Swift polytips.

    Good luck! PS..

    The 108 and 123 Lapua Scenars are probably the hot ticket for long range, but require more workup than it sounds like you have time for.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Bill,

      Awesome advice! Wish I had more time but this should give me a starting point.

      I've heard that about the Lapua Scenars, my brother likes them in his 260rem. Just wish I had more time but can't pass up this class. We'll be working our way out from 200, I think, so if it falls apart at 1k, that will be ok. I'm in the class to learn but don't want to be hindered from the get go.

      Thanks a bunch!

      Mark

      Comment

      • LR1955
        Super Moderator
        • Mar 2011
        • 3355

        #4
        Originally posted by mlmiller1 View Post
        Thanks Bill,

        Awesome advice! Wish I had more time but this should give me a starting point.

        I've heard that about the Lapua Scenars, my brother likes them in his 260rem. Just wish I had more time but can't pass up this class. We'll be working our way out from 200, I think, so if it falls apart at 1k, that will be ok. I'm in the class to learn but don't want to be hindered from the get go. Thanks a bunch! Mark
        Mark:

        Unless you are shooting above about 3Kfeet, your loads will be subsonic by 800 are my bets. I don't really care what theoretical velocities someone comes up with via a computer. May not mean that much but I would consider it when calling shots at 800 - 1K or you may start to second guess yourself.

        Oh yes, just go with 'a mile a minute' for winds at 1K with any of your Grendel loads and you will be much better off than guys who are trying to figure out mathematical calculations on a firing line while the wind is blowing.

        The difference between shooting at 200 and 1K for your Grendel will be about 36 minutes of elevation. So, your optic / rail better have enough elevation. Normally a 20 - 30 minute tapered base is sufficient given a decent optic.

        LR55

        Comment


        • #5
          lr55, Thanks, I think I understand most of what you posted. The elevation here is a bit above 3300' though, so maybe that will help. So, you are saying one MOA for each mile per hour of wind? I am using a mil/mil scope so I guess I better start converting. I can guarantee the wind will be blowing, only question is which way. hahaha. I'm shooting an IOR 3-18 FFP scope but I don't know for certain how much elevation it has in it. My rings are NOT tapered. Guess I may run out of adjustment. I'm hoping to make good use of the class out to at least 800, anything after that is just "bonus" stuff. Guess we'll see.
          Thanks for the post/suggestions.
          Mark

          Comment

          • LR1955
            Super Moderator
            • Mar 2011
            • 3355

            #6
            Originally posted by mlmiller1 View Post
            lr55, Thanks, I think I understand most of what you posted. The elevation here is a bit above 3300' though, so maybe that will help. So, you are saying one MOA for each mile per hour of wind? I am using a mil/mil scope so I guess I better start converting. I can guarantee the wind will be blowing, only question is which way. hahaha. I'm shooting an IOR 3-18 FFP scope but I don't know for certain how much elevation it has in it. My rings are NOT tapered. Guess I may run out of adjustment. I'm hoping to make good use of the class out to at least 800, anything after that is just "bonus" stuff. Guess we'll see.
            Thanks for the post/suggestions.
            Mark
            Mark:

            Easy to figure out if you have enough elevation. Get a zero and see if the optic will take that much elevation without a angled rail. If you can put on about 40 minutes from a 100 or 200 elevation, and you hot load a very good bullet, it may not be supersonic at 1K but at least it will get there without running out of elevation in the process.

            Easy way to see what direction the wind is blowing. Pick up some dry grass and toss it into the air. Yes, I know about doping off of mirage and other indicators and am not suggesting you ignore down range conditions either. Might as well get a good omnidirectional anemometer for about $100.00 and have it on a little tripod where you can glance at it while in position. It lets you train yourself on wind speed very effectively.

            A 'mile a minute' means for every one MPH of full value wind, hold one minute into the wind. Generally works real well at 1K and particularly when your bullet leaves a barrel at well under 2900 fps.

            Providing the Russians are using Artillery mils, look at one mil equaling 3 1/2 MPH of full value wind at 1K. At 600 go with 1/2 minute per MPH and you ought to be OK. These are real rough but they do in conditions where the winds are not constant which is always. One thing about those Russian optics is that you really don't know if they are using US or Russian units of measure. Best bet is to find out.

            Oh yes, get a damn good no wind zero for your windage. It needs to be within + - 1/2 minute from a true mechanical no wind zero. If you mess around trying to adjust windage dials you will get behind the wind conditions real bad. Unless the wind is constant from one direction, train yourself to use holds with the reticle.

            Many nuances involved but keep the variables down or you will get into trouble and not learn any valuable lessons from your training.

            LR1955

            Comment


            • #7
              LR1955,

              Thank you very much. I will make hard copy of what you have suggested & try to put it into my memory for use. I do understand mostly about your wind suggestions. West & North Texas winds are always changing, so that is very valuable advice. I have a kestrel meter which is not necessarily quite as good as a tripod mounted anemometer but will do, I think. It takes more manual work but allows me to be more mobile. Like all things, it is a compromise.

              I'm pretty sure the IOR is German, not russian but not positive. Anyway, the little bit I've used it & the fair amount my brother used it before I got it seemed to prove it is US units of measure. Of course I guess I don't know what russian units would be like. ???? Anyway, it appears to be accurate milrad in a language I can use.

              Thank you very much, I'm getting pretty excited about the class. Not sure what I expect to learn but whatever it is, if it makes me a better shooter, I'm all in!

              Mark Miller

              Comment

              • StoneTower

                #8
                Originally posted by mlmiller1 View Post
                LR1955,

                Thank you very much. I will make hard copy of what you have suggested & try to put it into my memory for use. I do understand mostly about your wind suggestions. West & North Texas winds are always changing, so that is very valuable advice. I have a kestrel meter which is not necessarily quite as good as a tripod mounted anemometer but will do, I think. It takes more manual work but allows me to be more mobile. Like all things, it is a compromise.

                I'm pretty sure the IOR is German, not russian but not positive. Anyway, the little bit I've used it & the fair amount my brother used it before I got it seemed to prove it is US units of measure. Of course I guess I don't know what russian units would be like. ???? Anyway, it appears to be accurate milrad in a language I can use.

                Thank you very much, I'm getting pretty excited about the class. Not sure what I expect to learn but whatever it is, if it makes me a better shooter, I'm all in!

                Mark Miller
                The IOR factory is in Bucharest Romania. They make top quality scopes. Some say they are on the same level as the high end German scopes. They are not Russian. Russian is a Slavic language that uses the Cyrillic alphabet while Romanian is a Romance language (French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian) that uses the Latin alphabet (the same as English). IOR makes scopes for military use, but it is not some substandard quality scope maker. The problem with the IOR scopes it that if something happens, they have to go back to Romania for repair. There are also Chinese copies that can look quite real.

                Comment

                • LR1955
                  Super Moderator
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 3355

                  #9
                  Originally posted by StoneTower View Post
                  The IOR factory is in Bucharest Romania. They make top quality scopes. Some say they are on the same level as the high end German scopes. They are not Russian. Russian is a Slavic language that uses the Cyrillic alphabet while Romanian is a Romance language (French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian) that uses the Latin alphabet (the same as English). IOR makes scopes for military use, but it is not some substandard quality scope maker. The problem with the IOR scopes it that if something happens, they have to go back to Romania for repair. There are also Chinese copies that can look quite real.
                  ST / Guys:

                  Sorry. I view all countries of the former Warsaw Pact as 'Russian' as their quality level was on par with the Russians when they were part of the Warsaw Pact. So, it is prejudice on my part to a degree. Also, when the Soviet Union collapsed we found the quality level of stuff coming from these places to be poor. I am sure that once they figured out they had to compete instead of being given business by the Soviet that they corrected their poor (Soviet era) quality.

                  LR55

                  Comment

                  • LR1955
                    Super Moderator
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 3355

                    #10
                    Originally posted by mlmiller1 View Post
                    LR1955,

                    Thank you very much. I will make hard copy of what you have suggested & try to put it into my memory for use. I do understand mostly about your wind suggestions. West & North Texas winds are always changing, so that is very valuable advice. I have a kestrel meter which is not necessarily quite as good as a tripod mounted anemometer but will do, I think. It takes more manual work but allows me to be more mobile. Like all things, it is a compromise.

                    I'm pretty sure the IOR is German, not russian but not positive. Anyway, the little bit I've used it & the fair amount my brother used it before I got it seemed to prove it is US units of measure. Of course I guess I don't know what russian units would be like. ???? Anyway, it appears to be accurate milrad in a language I can use.

                    Thank you very much, I'm getting pretty excited about the class. Not sure what I expect to learn but whatever it is, if it makes me a better shooter, I'm all in!

                    Mark Miller
                    Yo Mark:

                    Do you have enough elevation?

                    LR55

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by LR1955 View Post
                      Yo Mark:

                      Do you have enough elevation?

                      LR55
                      Well, problem is I'm gonna have one chance to head to the range before the class. Only one so I haven't had the time to find out about elevation or even zero the scope. Hopefully, my intent is to have ammo in one week & make the trip, then we'll know. I have the windage about right but not the elevation as I have shot some ammo. Most of it was that Wolf SP that came with the upper. That stuff really is not much count. I had some AA ammo that also came with it but it was various boxes of almost every type they make. Of course each different round hits at a different point so to truly zero, I need what I'm gonna shoot. The guy I bought the upper from had tried what appeared to be every kind of ammo from AA. There was also some black hills stuff. It was a nice thing to have all this ammo to try but there is not enough of any one to zero in good. Kind of a funny mix of things. LOL. Anyway, by next Sunday I should be in business. Wish my range wasn't a minimum 45 minute drive each way.

                      You know, I guess I could take my approx zero & start dialing in elevation to see what I have. Since it isn't exact, it wouldn't be totally accurate but I bet it is close enough. I didn't think about that. I'll see what I can do here in a few hours.

                      Thanks again posters, I'm learning everytime you guys put something on here.

                      MLM

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        LR, I've got about 23 MOA(6.5 Mils) left in the scope plus reticle holdovers, which is a bad way to do what I need. Looks like I am not gonna get the good out of the class unless I can find an inclined base. Time to hit the internet. Thanks for giving me numbers to work with & ideas to think about.

                        MLM

                        Comment

                        • rasp65
                          Warrior
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 660

                          #13
                          I don't know if it is enough for you but White Oak sells a 15min riser for $85. http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/index.htm
                          Midway has this http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Brow...*&brandId=2367 and this http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Brow...*&brandId=2160
                          Last edited by rasp65; 04-04-2011, 01:54 PM.

                          Comment

                          • LR1955
                            Super Moderator
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 3355

                            #14
                            Originally posted by mlmiller1 View Post
                            LR, I've got about 23 MOA(6.5 Mils) left in the scope plus reticle holdovers, which is a bad way to do what I need. Looks like I am not gonna get the good out of the class unless I can find an inclined base. Time to hit the internet. Thanks for giving me numbers to work with & ideas to think about. MLM
                            Mark:

                            Roger... Rasp gave you a couple of good options. If you get one, ensure it is an extended length model as the higher your head gets in position, and the riser / tapered base will force your head higher, the more it goes forward on the rifle. Given the optic you are using, you need a base that extends past the front of the receiver and even then I won't make any promises that you can get your particular optic far enough away from your eye that you don't have to crank your head backwards. So, figure out a way to get some length to the stock and have it ready to use if you find your head must get cranked backwards in order to get your eye relief and comfort. No big deal there. Foam pad and green tape.

                            I think it is probably a good idea to get that riser with 29 MOA angle because if you guys are going to shoot NRA High Power targets, the 1K large target is used at 800 and 900 so at 800 the 10 and X is very big for the distance. This can give guys a very deceptive impression of their performance. 900 and 1K really force you to dope winds and call shots. Not so much at 800.

                            Have fun and do write to the training forums about your lessons learned and how your training went.

                            LR1955

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Try 120 gr berger hptbt 28.2 gr tac small primer load to mag length,from a100 yard zero,crank 52 clicks on scope figure wind an practice hold over to 800 then try to hold over at 1000. A good range finder is a must,awind meter is amust if you are going to be efective at those ranges, be safe ....

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