How much Wolf ammo?

Since the Wolf Gold 6.5 Grendel ammo is now being sold and shipped, how much have you ordered?

I now have 10 boxes on order from AA and 8 boxes on order from Cabela's. :)

I have two cases coming from Alexander Arms, and 10 boxes on order from Cabela's.

ILya

I just bought a case from AA.
Want to see the accuracy level and general reloadability of the brass before deciding on ordering more.

Bought a 500rnd case yesterday from AA, and I don't even have my barrel yet :D

Bought two cases from AA and have 400 rds on order from Cabela's. Also have 1 case (500 rds) of the Black Hills load coming to me next week (or so they say) from Les Baer.

Homero

Bought a 500rnd case yesterday from AA, and I don't even have my barrel yet :D

How about this? I bought 1000 rounds today from AA, and I do not have any of the parts for my rifle yet. (My complete upper and lower receiver are both in transit).

How about this? I bought 1000 rounds today from AA, and I do not have any of the parts for my rifle yet. (My complete upper and lower receiver are both in transit).

That's planning ahead...something some of us wished we did last year!

That's planning ahead...something some of us wished we did last year!

I figure if the new Wolf stuff leaps off the shelves it will help with the popularity of the 6.5 Grendel. In addition, I figure I'll always want to keep some supply of this stuff on hand just in case we hit lean times.

How much TOTAL of the 6.5 Grendel Wolf came into the country?

Anyone know?

How about this? I bought 1000 rounds today from AA, and I do not have any of the parts for my rifle yet. (My complete upper and lower receiver are both in transit).

Sounds good to me, I'm a reloader so I bought it basically for the brass. 500 loaded rnds + 4-5 times reload....................that'll do me for awhile :)

Sounds good to me, I'm a reloader so I bought it basically for the brass. 500 loaded rnds + 4-5 times reload....................that'll do me for awhile :)

http://www.pajhwok.com/viewstory.asp?lng=eng&id=33931

With us trying to stand up 40 new Iraqi brigades, the new Afghan Army, equip the Sunni An Bar Salvation Council so they can erradicate Al Queda, and now appearantly, the Afghan and Paki tribesmen along the pourous border, a lot of stuff is going to get hard to find, even such staples as .223 and 9mm ammo and 9mm pistols. I assume 7.62x39 is already getting scarce? Or maybe the ComBloc is able to supply that as the Sovs aren't arming every tyrant in the world these days and have some extra capacity. As cheap as weapons and ammo are these days I like your call.

I bought 100 rds. today. I reload as well and figured I could use the brass for a comparison between large and small primed versions of the cartridge.

My 1,000 rounds of FMJ .40 S&W got here today, so I am ready to go to the range and try out my new PX4 now. I will post a gratuitous photo as soon as ImageShack swallows the pic I am trying to upload. Thanks for the great find on price Mike. :D

I guess I have about 1,700 rounds here now and need to check local laws to see if there is a max. I seem to recall some places have a 5,000 round restriction. If this stuff shoots well I will get more of the FMJ for practice and save the Winchester Ranger 155 JHP for WW-III.

Well, my case of Wolf ammo showed up yesterday.
This afternoon I went to the range to do a bit of testing.
Couldn't run it across the chronograph due to heavy clouds and intermittent snow / sleet.
Go figure, snow in Oklahoma in April. Strange times.

First I fired for accuracy at 100 yards while prone at the benchrest covered range using my bi-pod and rice sock. Took the targets home and measured each group with calipers.
Shot a test 3 shot group with a 108 Scenar load that shoots really well from my rifle. The control group was .630", not quite 1/2 moa. No reason to shoot more shots with the load cause I know how well it shoots and more rounds is just putting more holes in the same area.
I have the use of two different uppers. Both shoot about the same with my handload. One is a 20" GCS upper. The second is a 28" CSS match rifle upper that was used to shoot the control 3 shot group since the 32X scope was already mounted on it.
Fired three 5 shot groups with the Wolf Gold 123 grain Soft Point thru the 28" upper.
Group #1 1.830"
Group #2 1.950"
Group #3 1.120"

Switched the target scope over onto the 20" upper and shot three 5 shot groups.
Group #1 2.185"
Group #2 2.290"
Group #3 0.875"

Next I went over to the high power range to see how much elevation adjustment it would take to hit a 645 yard steel reactive target with the 20" upper.
Started with 20 moa of adjustment but the shot went way low. By the time I was actually on target it took 27 moa to get the elevation right.

That is right.
20" barrel
645 yards
27 moa

Lastly, I went back over to the benchrest range and cranked it back to the 100 yard zero to verify that I had counted the elevation adjustment properly. Yep, 27 moa.
Shot a last 5 shot group at 100 with the Wolf Gold ammo that went 0.965"

Not sure of the velocity due to the above mentioned clouds and snow flurries but hopefully I will be able to get velocity readings with both uppers before the weekend is over and then do some more accuracy groups.

The Wolf is probably a reasonable choice for hunting but not quite accurate enough for me personally at the range. Definitely better than cheap "plinking" ammo and a good all around choice as long as you are willing to accept 2 moa or better as your accuracy standard. It functioned perfectly thru both uppers so reliability was 100%.

Two additional things I noticed.
The brass was being kicked out over a pretty wide area. My handloads are normally in a 24" circle at 4 oclock about 48" away from the rifle when I am shooting from the prone position. The Wolf brass was anywhere from 2 oclock to about 7 oclock and some was in close and some was out 7 or 8 feet away. My guess is that the velocity spread is going to vary quite a bit.
Second thing I noticed is that there did not appear to be any clumping within the 5 shot groups. Normally, if a load wants to shoot but is having problems I expect to see 3 or 4 shots pretty close together with one or two flyers opening things up. Nothing like that with the Wolf ammo. Random and spread out. Every now and then there were two shots close but that was probably just random patterning.

Maybe others will have different results but I wanted to post my results to give people a realistic and unbiased review.

Holly cow! :eek: I am planning to pick up a bike at Bartlesville Cycle Sports
sometime this month. I would hate to run into snow on the drive back to California. For the $2,200 price difference though I am looking forward to it as a paid vacation. :D

Well, my case of Wolf ammo showed up yesterday.
This afternoon I went to the range to do a bit of testing.
Couldn't run it across the chronograph due to heavy clouds and intermittent snow / sleet.
Go figure, snow in Oklahoma in April. Strange times.

First I fired for accuracy at 100 yards while prone at the benchrest covered range using my bi-pod and rice sock. Took the targets home and measured each group with calipers.
Shot a test 3 shot group with a 108 Scenar load that shoots really well from my rifle. The control group was .630", not quite 1/2 moa. No reason to shoot more shots with the load cause I know how well it shoots and more rounds is just putting more holes in the same area.
I have the use of two different uppers. Both shoot about the same with my handload. One is a 20" GCS upper. The second is a 28" CSS match rifle upper that was used to shoot the control 3 shot group since the 32X scope was already mounted on it.
Fired three 5 shot groups with the Wolf Gold 123 grain Soft Point thru the 28" upper.
Group #1 1.830"
Group #2 1.950"
Group #3 1.120"

Switched the target scope over onto the 20" upper and shot three 5 shot groups.
Group #1 2.185"
Group #2 2.290"
Group #3 0.875"

Next I went over to the high power range to see how much elevation adjustment it would take to hit a 645 yard steel reactive target with the 20" upper.
Started with 20 moa of adjustment but the shot went way low. By the time I was actually on target it took 27 moa to get the elevation right.

That is right.
20" barrel
645 yards
27 moa

Lastly, I went back over to the benchrest range and cranked it back to the 100 yard zero to verify that I had counted the elevation adjustment properly. Yep, 27 moa.
Shot a last 5 shot group at 100 with the Wolf Gold ammo that went 0.965"

Not sure of the velocity due to the above mentioned clouds and snow flurries but hopefully I will be able to get velocity readings with both uppers before the weekend is over and then do some more accuracy groups.

The Wolf is probably a reasonable choice for hunting but not quite accurate enough for me personally at the range. Definitely better than cheap "plinking" ammo and a good all around choice as long as you are willing to accept 2 moa or better as your accuracy standard.

Two additional things I noticed.
The brass was being kicked out over a pretty wide area. My handloads are normally in a 24" circle at 4 oclock about 48" away from the rifle when I am shooting from the prone position. The Wolf brass was anywhere from 2 oclock to about 7 oclock and some was in close and some was out 7 or 8 feet away. My guess is that the velocity spread is going to vary quite a bit.
Second thing I noticed is that there did not appear to be any clumping within the 5 shot groups. Normally, if a load wants to shoot but is having problems I expect to see 3 or 4 shots pretty close together with one or two flyers opening things up. Nothing like that with the Wolf ammo. Random and spread out. Every now and then there were two shots close but that was probably just random patterning.

Maybe others will have different results but I wanted to post my results to give people a realistic and unbiased review.


Bruce,

In a post elsewhere I posted about shooting my Wolf ammo out of my 20 CSS barrel. I gave velocities and extremes spreads, along with standard deviation. It's not that bad. Also my ammo shot pretty damn good. I did this with just a 14x scope too. I'd have to go back to the post but the velocity was near 2400 fps I believe.

After enjoying about a month of 80 degree weather here, things greening up, and fruit trees and flowers in bloom, this damn cold from from Canada came through and we're way below freezing at night and snow is due here in the mtns where I lives. Really sucks, so don't feel alone.

Joe

Edited: Bruce, found the thread, go here: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?p=23742#post23742

One more thing, it took me forever and again, to clean the damn jacket fouling out of my barrel, first time this ever happen. How about your barrel Bruce? Did the Wolf ammo leave alot of jacket metal fouling in your barrel?

Joe

I followed your thread with interest and was hoping to get some velocity to go with the accuracy. My accuracy was quite a bit worse than yours. I also tried it with two different uppers with similar results. Not sure why at this time.

One thing I did notice when measuring the fired cases. You talked about the Wolf brass being thin at the neck but it doesn't look bad to me.
I measured half a dozen of the loaded rounds and got about .285" from Wolf loaded ammo as compared to .287" for Lapua.
It doesn't look to be enough thinner to be a problem. Just means I will need a .286 or .287 bushing for the dies.
Should have time to load up 40 rounds later this evening and do some testing tomorrow.

Edited to add temp.
about 35 deg. F. with intermittent sleet & snow.

Joe, what temp was it when you shot your Wolf? Bruce?

Roy,

It was much warmer then what Bruce shot his in. It was high 60's for me.

I don't understand why Bruces ammo is measuring out different on the micrometer.

Joe

Fired three 5 shot groups with the Wolf Gold 123 grain Soft Point thru the 28" upper.
Group #1 1.830"
Group #2 1.950"
Group #3 1.120"

Switched the target scope over onto the 20" upper and shot three 5 shot groups.
Group #1 2.185"
Group #2 2.290"
Group #3 0.875"

Next I went over to the high power range to see how much elevation adjustment it would take to hit a 645 yard steel reactive target with the 20" upper. I started with 20 moa of adjustment but the shot went way low. By the time I was actually on target it took 27 moa to get the elevation right.

That is right.
20" barrel
645 yards
27 moa

Maybe others will have different results but I wanted to post my results to give people a realistic and unbiased review.

Bruce:

I commend you on your realistic and unbiased review. I did some figuring and given Joe's velocity of an anemic 2400 fps with the Wolf 123 SP and your 27 MOA need to get from 100 to 650 -- your elevation of 27 MOA is very much reflective of a bullet with a G1 BC of about .360 which I would bet is right on the money for the Wolf SP stuff. It is basically ball ammo.

I also concur that there is something going on with the velocity given the spread of your expended cartridges. However, you stated the groups were rounded so it is probably more a result of former Soviet Union ammunition quality control combined with cheap brass that is giving the spread. It is a hunting round after all.

Nothing real weird in what you are reporting IMHO and I commend you on being thorough and without emotion.

LR1955

Bruce,

I noticed it was your third group that was the tight one. Did a warm barrel perhaps bring the powder up above some threshold temp?


Joe,

If you would, could you please put some Wolf ammo in the fridge and some in the freezer and shoot it for grouping and velocity? Mag the ammo first if you can and store in a small ice chest while at the range? We might be able to get to the bottom of this pretty quickly.

Roy,

Hell I won't have to do that if I shoot tomr. Winter come back to TN. High tomr is something like 37. It's below freezing now and snowing. I might do it for yall, but I sure hate to clean that jacket alloy fouling out of my rifle barrel. The Speer bullet fouling cleaned right out easy.

I used a brass catcher so I can't comment on where the brass would have landed.

Gene,

I wouldn't run that country down so much on ammo. They do and can make some really super brass and ammo. In fact they are quoted as making certain caliber brass for Winchester, like 7.62x54R. I believe too they are the ones making odd ball military brass for Grafs & Sons and if they are I can testify that their 7.6x54R and 8x56R is best I've seen bar none. I do think this Wolf 6.5 brass is a tad on the shoddy side though. I'll have to weigh up some cases as it feels very light.

Joe

Okay, just weighed some brass. First let me tell you what I thought before weighing. I'm talking Win, PMC, and the Wolf. The Win and PMC are 7.62x39 fireformed to 6.5 Grendel. I chose these because they are large rifle primered, so weighing an AA case wouldn't be fair. I knew the Win is thick and I felt the PMC wasn't quite as thick as the Win. I thought the Wolf brass was really thin. Okay here's the weights: Win 122.2 grs, PMC 119.6, and the Wolf 111.7. That's a pretty big spread and confirms the Wolf is thinner, or at least lighter for some reason.

Joe

I don't think it was shooting any better at the end than at the beginning but anything is possible. Maybe the velocity drops off quickly at or below a particular temperature.
The weather is due to be in the 50's on Easter Sunday with sunshine.
I should be able to make it to the range some time in the middle of the afternoon if the family dinner gets over by 2 pm.

Edited out the Wolf brass and reloading comments.
Moved them over to the Wolf brass thread in the reloading section.

I don't think it was shooting any better at the end than at the beginning but anything is possible. Maybe the velocity drops off quickly at or below a particular temperature.
The weather is due to be in the 50's on Easter Sunday with sunshine.
I should be able to make it to the range some time in the middle of the afternoon if the family dinner gets over by 2 pm.

I have been spending the evening checking over the Wolf brass real closely. Used the .288 neck bushing to resize the brass.
FYI: used the .290 bushing on the Lapua brass.

After depriming and resizing the brass I weighed 30 pieces and got this
1 @ 110.4
1 @ 110.7
3 @ 110.8
2 @ 110.9
3 @ 111.0
2 @ 111.3
6 @ 111.4
1 @ 111.5
3 @ 111.6
1 @ 111.7
2 @ 111.8
3 @ 111.9
1 @ 112.0
1 @ 112.1

Median weight seems to be 111.4 grains with 12 pieces lighter and 12 pieces heavier.
Consistency actually seems to be really good for inexpensive brass. Better than Remington and Winchester stuff that I have bought in the past.

Until I can get a feel for safe loads in the Wolf brass all I know is to follow Bill Alexander's recommendation of backing off a grain.

Bruce,

How you get better then Win? That Win 7.62x39 brass is the best I've ever seen. I bought it years ago and have many many firing on it and only lost two cases. It's way thicker then the Wolf by a long shot. I'd rather have it thicker then thinner. I wasn't going to weigh all my Wolf cases, so just weighed one and turns out to weigh in the area that yours do. If you like thinner and want to compromise then the PMC stuff would be for you. Me, I'm looking for the small rifle primered Remington 7.62x39

Joe

Great stuff guys! This is important work. Keep it coming.

Well, I finally got a nice clear day to do a bit of range time.
I had to run the High Power match so one of the other guys was nice enough to shoot a few groups and get some velocity readings. Only did one five shot group with the Wolf ammo at 100 yards from the bench across the chronograph with this result
28" barrel length.
123 grain Wolf hunting ammo.
Temp: 65 deg. F. and Sunny
5 shot group size 1.730" at 100 yards
Velocity: 2589 fps, 2590 fps, 2602 fps, 2585 fps, 2563 fps
Extreme Spread: 39 fps
No clumping to indicate potential for improved accuracy.

Took it over to the High Power range to see what the zero's were at extended range with the 28" barrel.
550 yards was +17
According to my ballistic program that calculates to a BC of 0.325 to 0.350

Still haven't actually fired any of the Wolf brass reloads. Ran out of time.

Bruce,

Maybe my barrel and rifle shoot that Wolf ammo better then your set up is all I can think. It certainly isn't me, might have been when I was younger, but my eyes and nerves are shot. I do ok for an old man though.

You still haven't mentioned how hard or easy it was to clean the bullet alloy out of the bore after you were done. Mine was a bitch, none of the other bullets I should are, they clean easy.

Joe

Have you guys filled the cases with water and weighed them? I would seem to me to be an interesting bit of info. If this was done with different brass fire formed to the same chamber. It would also tell if the walls were thinner or the alloy was just different mass.
Terry