Grendelf?

My first thought was "typo". So I e-mailed AA to ask. No reply. I googled 'Grendelf' and got "Did you mean 'Grendel'?" Also, a bunch of stuff referring back to the statement on the AA website regarding the millions of rounds of 'Grendelf' due to arrive in the USA in the next 90 days (better hurry before Osama bin Obama has his way with the gun industry). No specific information on the 'Grendelf' ammo.
Does anyone here know anything about this ammunition?

Some random thoughts:

The only failure of Liberty is that it does not automatically bestow honor, good character, self-discipline, and personal responsibility on its owner.

Trade Liberty for Security, and you will have neither.

Liberty cannot be given by men, only given away.

The surest road to tyranny is to give up your right and your means of self-defense.

There has never been a government that did not seek to limit the Liberty of the governed.

A political candidate’s worst enemy is an informed electorate.

PS: How do I graduate from 'Junior'? :o

My first thought was "typo". So I e-mailed AA to ask. No reply. I googled 'Grendelf' and got "Did you mean 'Grendel'?" Also, a bunch of stuff referring back to the statement on the AA website regarding the millions of rounds of 'Grendelf' due to arrive in the USA in the next 90 days (better hurry before Osama bin Obama has his way with the gun industry). No specific information on the 'Grendelf' ammo. Does anyone here know anything about this ammunition?


BW:

Where did you hear about this Grendelf ammo? Was supposed to be close hold. Apparently it is the Grendel using an accellerator (SABOT) with a 90 grain .223 solid. Designed to penetrate intermediate barriers. Heard the bullet is made from a very heavy metal and that the velocity is in the 3500 - 4000 fps level with very low pressures. Some sort of paradox barrel or maybe gain twist.

If this is supposed to be secret, someone should inform Bill Alexander. The info came to me via the 'News and Announcements' on the AA website. And if this ammo is 'famed', why has no one outside of AA and these forums ever heard of it?
If your description is accurate, then this ammo is sure to be destined for FFL Class 3 or some other 'not for public consumption' pidgeonhole. BATFE and the gungrabbers won't want us peons to get our hands on anything militarily useful, even though it was the intent of our Founding Fathers to guarantee that We the People are armed equal to any military, in the event the 'gubmint is not here to help us' (as has been made abundantly clear in recent months).

Apparently it is the Grendel using an accellerator (SABOT) with a 90 grain .223 solid. Designed to penetrate intermediate barriers. Heard the bullet is made from a very heavy metal and that the velocity is in the 3500 - 4000 fps level with very low pressures. Some sort of paradox barrel or maybe gain twist.
Gene, that's somewhat different than what I heard. My information is that it has a saboted, fin-stabilized, ultralightweight titanium projectile, fired @ 5000+ fps from a smoothbore barrel.

BW, there's a secret ritual that Junior members must go through in order to graduate to Senior.

The Grendelf...spreading his love to living things everywhere. :D

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8324/grendelfto4.png

Izzit April already? I gotta start paying more attention to stuff. :rolleyes:

Gene, that's somewhat different than what I heard. My information is that it has a saboted, fin-stabilized, ultralightweight titanium projectile, fired @ 5000+ fps from a smoothbore barrel.

Stan:

My sources indicated that the FSDS had problems with yaw at distances to about 100 m and that due to the yaw of the projo, it deflected erratically when it hit something like a car windshield. The user wanted something that would go through intermediate barriers and maintain its course. So the design is similar to the SLAP. Proprietary information after that due to SABOT construction and design. It really is leap ahead for small arms SABOT.

LR1955

BW, there's a secret ritual that Junior members must go through in order to graduate to Senior.
Cool! And after we go through the ritual, can you please tell us where the secret treasure is hidden? Will Nicholas Cage be there? OK, if we can't know where the treasure is, can we just get a bunch of AA brass---cheap?!;)

Stan:

My sources indicated that the FSDS had problems with yaw at distances to about 100 m and that due to the yaw of the projo, it deflected erratically when it hit something like a car windshield. The user wanted something that would go through intermediate barriers and maintain its course. So the design is similar to the SLAP. Proprietary information after that due to SABOT construction and design. It really is leap ahead for small arms SABOT.

LR1955

OK, guys, it's beginning to look like a poorly executed fraternity hazing. If this were a courtroom, I'd have to object on the grounds that no foundation had been presented to introduce this line of questioning.
First of all, lay off the self-important techno-speak, please. I am not interested in slapping my - or anyone else's - sabot, and especially if it involves any feminine personal products.
Second (and with all kidding aside), I am actually interested in this new Grendelf ammo. I was sort of hoping it was going to be reasonably priced, readily available and highly accurate commercial ammo. Instead, it sounds like it is some exotic two-stage missile in cartridge form. I'd like to know more, but start from the ground up, please.
Thanks.

It's just a typo.

OK, guys, it's beginning to look like a poorly executed fraternity hazing. If this were a courtroom, I'd have to object on the grounds that no foundation had been presented to introduce this line of questioning.
First of all, lay off the self-important techno-speak, please. I am not interested in slapping my - or anyone else's - sabot, and especially if it involves any feminine personal products.
Second (and with all kidding aside), I am actually interested in this new Grendelf ammo. I was sort of hoping it was going to be reasonably priced, readily available and highly accurate commercial ammo. Instead, it sounds like it is some exotic two-stage missile in cartridge form. I'd like to know more, but start from the ground up, please. Thanks.

DW:

What Stan and I are discussing is the Grendelf. It isn't cheap blasting ammo. It is serious business. You won't get cheaper in terms of price than the Wolf stuff.

We are talking about two different things. Sorry to have confused you over this.

LR1955

If I have offended anyone with my evidently ill-conceived attempt at a humorous response to what appeared to me to be (a) doublespeak, (b) technical information above my present level of knowledge, or (c) "let's have fun with the noob", I apologize. I'm certainly not above a good joke, but neither am I a fool, nor a dilettante.
It is my understanding that this forum exists to disseminate useful information relating to all things Grendel. If I am laboring under a misconception here, please let me know.
It is my further understanding that a valid question asked in an open dedicated forum deserves consideration, and at least an attempt at a clear answer.
I asked the initial question because I actually want to know what 'Grendelf' is. I am prepared to follow where the answer to that leads me; if it in any way advances my ability to defend my family, my home and my country, I want to know about it.
I am nearing 60 years old, and I have been involved with firearms since I was 8. My father was a machinist, amateur gunsmith, handloader and avid hunter/shooter his entire life. As he was, I am. My brothers and I have not fallen any appreciable distance from that tree. However, I admit ignorance on this subject; please enlighten me.
Is there anyone who reads this forum who has access to 'Grendelf' links, actual documents (design specs, ballistics data, blueprints, etc.) or any other useful information on this subject? If so, I'd like you to respond.

PS: Anyone here know the secret 'senior' handshake?

The only failure of Liberty is that it does not automatically bestow honor, good character, self-discipline, and personal responsibility on its owner.

Trade Liberty for Security, and you will have neither.

Liberty cannot be given by men, only given away.

The surest road to tyranny is to give up your right and your means of self-defense.

There has never been a government that did not seek to limit the Liberty of the governed.

If I have offended anyone with my evidently ill-conceived attempt at a humorous response to what appeared to me to be (a) doublespeak, (b) technical information above my present level of knowledge, or (c) "let's have fun with the noob", I apologize. I'm certainly not above a good joke, but neither am I a fool, nor a dilettante.
It is my understanding that this forum exists to disseminate useful information relating to all things Grendel. If I am laboring under a misconception here, please let me know.
It is my further understanding that a valid question asked in an open dedicated forum deserves consideration, and at least an attempt at a clear answer.
I asked the initial question because I actually want to know what 'Grendelf' is. I am prepared to follow where the answer to that leads me; if it in any way advances my ability to defend my family, my home and my country, I want to know about it.
I am nearing 60 years old, and I have been involved with firearms since I was 8. My father was a machinist, amateur gunsmith, handloader and avid hunter/shooter his entire life. As he was, I am. My brothers and I have not fallen any appreciable distance from that tree. However, I admit ignorance on this subject; please enlighten me.
Is there anyone who reads this forum who has access to 'Grendelf' links, actual documents (design specs, ballistics data, blueprints, etc.) or any other useful information on this subject? If so, I'd like you to respond.

PS: Anyone here know the secret 'senior' handshake?

The only failure of Liberty is that it does not automatically bestow honor, good character, self-discipline, and personal responsibility on its owner.

Trade Liberty for Security, and you will have neither.

Liberty cannot be given by men, only given away.

The surest road to tyranny is to give up your right and your means of self-defense.

There has never been a government that did not seek to limit the Liberty of the governed.

Stan answered you accurately, there is no Grendelf. It was a typo and meant Grendel.
All kidding aside, welcome to the forum and you will find much useful info here on the Grendel in spite of some of the fun the guys were having at your expense.
The Grendel is a modest powered cartridge that fits in the AR platform and achieves superior long range performance though ballistically efficient bullet design rather than a high initial velocity. The 6.5 diameter bullets are the best compromise in sectional density, ballistic coefficient, weight to achieve adequate performance with low recoil. And, it's a lot of fun.
Join in you will find this group to be both knowledgeable and helpful.
Bob

If I have offended anyone with my evidently ill-conceived attempt at a humorous response to what appeared to me to be (a) doublespeak, (b) technical information above my present level of knowledge, or (c) "let's have fun with the noob", I apologize.
a. No one was offended, so no apology necessary.

b. Welcome to the forum. :)
PS: Anyone here know the secret 'senior' handshake?
All that's required is to make a certain number of posts. I think it's 100, but don't recall for sure.

I still think, aside from Stan's real answer, mine is the most accurate!

I dunno about most accurate, but it was by far the funniest! :D

lol... thanks.

BW-

Welcome to the forums!!

Grendelf is, as some have noted, a typo that somehow has been perpetuated for a while now.

The guys were joshing with you, and having bit of fun at your expense, and I apologize for it.

We greatly appreciate new members, and those with your experience will find that we really rely on new members to share their expertise!

As for the senior member thing, it is an automatic upgrade once you have a certain number of posts, but I'm a moderator and don't even remember the number!!

Welcome!!!

Bill

If I have offended anyone with my evidently ill-conceived attempt at a humorous response...
P.S. FWIW, I thought your response was both well-conceived and humorous.

Gee, I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy - or is that warm and moist?
Thanks for welcoming me to your group. I'll try to be useful. :)

BTW, Mr. bwaites, you and I are fairly close neighbors, geographically speaking.

BW - Welcome to the forums!!

As for the senior member thing, it is an automatic upgrade once you have a certain number of posts, but I'm a moderator and don't even remember the number!!
After a little checking I found out that making 50 posts gives an upgrade from Junior Member to Member, and 100 posts upgrades to Senior Member.

Curiously, there doesn't seem to be anything higher. I mean, one might think that achieving 3,000 posts would deserve a title of something like Grand Exalted Member... :eek: ;) :D :D :D

After a little checking I found out that making 50 posts gives an upgrade from Junior Member to Member, and 100 posts upgrades to Senior Member.

Curiously, there doesn't seem to be anything higher. I mean, one might think that achieving 3,000 posts would deserve a title of something like Grand Exalted Member... :eek: ;) :D :D :D

Or spammer? :p :eek:

OG

Or spammer? :p :eek:
Don't be insulting. 3,000 posts should rate better than that. Splendidly Spectacular Spammer, maybe. :p :D

Honorary Board Curmudgeon??? :eek:

Ouch! You really know how to hurt a guy! :p :p :p

LOL!!!!

Nice one whoever!

OG

Nice game of smackanoob. Sure glad is wasn't me. :D

So, after reading through this thread I didn't see an answer to the question about the millions of rounds of grendel ammo that will soon be on the shelves according to AA's website. Is this the stuff that Federal will be producing? If so, when? I finally got all the parts and put my grendel together last weekend. Any idea where to get some ammo? Every online site I can find is backordered. I would really like to site in this gun. :confused:

So, after reading through this thread I didn't see an answer to the question about the millions of rounds of grendel ammo that will soon be on the shelves according to AA's website. Is this the stuff that Federal will be producing? If so, when? I finally got all the parts and put my grendel together last weekend. Any idea where to get some ammo? Every online site I can find is backordered. I would really like to site in this gun. :confused:

DJ:

Handload. That will be your solution for several years or wait out the backorders and expect to pay over $1.50 per shot within two years.

No poo-poo -- you have only two solutions. One to wait out your backorders or two to start to reload.

I also encourage you to buy more components than you think you need. I have always bought cases of primers with powder orders even though I knew I wouldn't need that many in a year. It has paid off as I have many thousands of primers right now when everyone else is waiting out backorders that may last months.

LR1955

DJ:

Handload. That will be your solution for several years or wait out the backorders and expect to pay over $1.50 per shot within two years.

No poo-poo -- you have only two solutions. One to wait out your backorders or two to start to reload.

I also encourage you to buy more components than you think you need. I have always bought cases of primers with powder orders even though I knew I wouldn't need that many in a year. It has paid off as I have many thousands of primers right now when everyone else is waiting out backorders that may last months.

LR1955

Where do you get your brass for 6.5 grendel or do you make your own?

u can fireform/waterform (is that what its called? a video on youtube showing u how to do it, posted by Chopper methinks) from 7.62 soviet brass. IMI seems to be quite popular.

or you could just buy from AA or lapua. (but they are expensive, especially compared to beowulf, which is larger but cheaper per lot :eek: :eek: )

There is new brass out there, again. I just received mine from Midway that had been on backorder since January. It looks like Midway exhausted their supply in filling backorders, though. Bruno Shooters Supply has 6.5 Grendel Lapua in stock at .80 a piece. Not a bad price, since Midway is asking 82.99 a hundred and Graf&Sons is asking 87.99 per hundred. AA has their brass listed for 69.00 per hundred (great price!), as long as you are willing to wait a while. Powder Valley Inc. also has Lapua brass in stock for 82.00 per hundred.

I haven't taken the plunge on forming brass from 7.62x39. Awfully tempting, but I have enough Lapua & AA brass that I don't want to mess with it.

Definitely have to second what LR1955 said about buying more components than you think you need. I have thousands of primers, as well, and don't have to stress about shortages. They should keep indefinitely if stored in a cool, dry place.

-Skunk6

Where do you get your brass for 6.5 grendel or do you make your own?

DJ:

I make a rather large order to Powder Valley about every eight months for powder and primers. I always order more than I think I need and after six years of doing this, I have enough primers and powder to last me through Obama's rule of shame.

If I see brass at a decent price -- I order at least 1000 pieces. When IMI 7.62 X 39 brass was seventeen cents ($.17) a piece -- I ordered two thousand pieces.

If you buy some decent loading dies (Redding collet dies) your brass will last for many shots. Probably twenty if you don't do dumb things like load 31 grains of TAC behind a 120 grain anything.

If you load the large rifle primer brass (Winchester / IMI 7.62 X 39) use the slower powders like 2520 and 748 and that brass will last twenty or more shots.

LR1955

Thanks for the info. I did find a local dealer that had a bunch of Wolf Gold ammo in stock. So I bought a bunch of that to get started. I do want to hand load, though. I watched the youtube video about hydroforming the 7.62 x 39 brass. It seemed way too easy although he left out some details as to what he was banging on to create the pressure. It was interesting.

Thanks for the info. I did find a local dealer that had a bunch of Wolf Gold ammo in stock. So I bought a bunch of that to get started. I do want to hand load, though. I watched the youtube video about hydroforming the 7.62 x 39 brass. It seemed way too easy although he left out some details as to what he was banging on to create the pressure. It was interesting.

Hi DJ,

No need to hydroform. Just load the 7.62x39 light and fireform it. Makes good practice ammo. See LR1955 posts on the subject for more details.

So, after reading through this thread I didn't see an answer to the question about the millions of rounds of grendel ammo that will soon be on the shelves according to AA's website. Is this the stuff that Federal will be producing? If so, when?
Um, im pretty sure that Alexander Arms hasn't updated their site in forever. I wouldn't be surprised if that "major manufacturer" is the Wolf Gold from forever ago. I'm annoyed that they only have info from the 2006 shot show on there. I took that to mean that they have nothing new to say or that they have a crappy web designer/manager. Bill, if you are reading and are interested my business partner just so happens to be a web designer as well.

Or, you can take it to mean that they are so bloody busy, that they don't have time to work on the web page. You know, they would much rather build rifles and make ammo or on the phone with suppliers trying to figure out when their next shipment of materials is going to arrive.

Or, you can take it to mean that they are so bloody busy, that they don't have time to work on the web page. You know, they would much rather build rifles and make ammo or on the phone with suppliers trying to figure out when their next shipment of materials is going to arrive.

If they have been that busy since 2006 then they really could afford to hire some more people or start making the crap themselves. Does anyone know exactly how long that outdated "News and announcements" is? I think its been there for atleast 7 months since I started looking at their website.

IIRC, it's been there for about three years, maybe longer.

If they have been that busy since 2006 then they really could afford to hire some more people or start making the crap themselves. Does anyone know exactly how long that outdated "News and announcements" is? I think its been there for atleast 7 months since I started looking at their website.
AA is caught between a rock and a hard place.

They have added staff over the last couple years, but it isn't as simple as it seems.

They still can only get parts at a certain rate, and if you have staff but not parts you are paying people to stand around. If you have parts but not staff, at least you can work. It may be slower than you like, but you aren't paying people to do nothing.

As a small company, they have limited means to order parts. Meaning that they can't order 20,000 bolts, or 10,000 barrels, or 10,000 uppers. They have to order what they can reasonably assemble in some specific amount of time. That means they are often the smallest order. Guess where the smallest order gets put?

Bill

There is new brass out there, again. I just received mine from Midway that had been on backorder since January. It looks like Midway exhausted their supply in filling backorders, though. Bruno Shooters Supply has 6.5 Grendel Lapua in stock at .80 a piece. Not a bad price, since Midway is asking 82.99 a hundred and Graf&Sons is asking 87.99 per hundred. AA has their brass listed for 69.00 per hundred (great price!), as long as you are willing to wait a while. Powder Valley Inc. also has Lapua brass in stock for 82.00 per hundred.
-Skunk6

What I don't understand is why we don't see brass shipping from AA. With brass showing up at other dealers you would think that AA would be able to get a shipment and fill backorders.