Does anyone have the real scoop on Wolf steel case FMJ?

[ss355]

We've all seen the 110 grn Wolf steel case in the Wolf catalog for a couple years now. I emailed Wolf a month or so ago and received a reply of "last quarter this year" (not verbatim). I don't feel particularly confident about that estimate, given the current track record of this round. I understand that getting products to market can be difficult, but is it that problematic to import 6.5 Grendel steel case? Is Wolf keeping an eye on the market to decide whether it's worth the investment to import it? Are there really manufacturing difficulties holding up the works? Seriously, what gives? Does anyone with connections have an idea why steel case, FMJ 6.5 Grendel isn't on the shelf of my local gun shop or in stock at Aimsurplus?

[bwaites]

We've all seen the 110 grn Wolf steel case in the Wolf catalog for a couple years now. I emailed Wolf a month or so ago and received a reply of "last quarter this year" (not verbatim).

With the history of this promise from Wolf, no one can be very confident. I actually ran a contest, which no one won, on the old board!

I don't feel particularly confident about that estimate, given the current track record of this round. I understand that getting products to market can be difficult, but is it that problematic to import 6.5 Grendel steel case?

Yep, it is. Wolf doesn't make ammo, as you know, they contract to have it made. The Grendel case has some fairly unique properties that evidently the engineers need to take into account and its not as easy as we would all hope.There are expansion differences in steel and brass, and that has to be worked into the equation, I'm sure.

Is Wolf keeping an eye on the market to decide whether it's worth the investment to import it?

Well I hope so, otherwise we'll never get it!

Are there really manufacturing difficulties holding up the works?

I don't know if that is the case or if the design and trial simply takes longer than we all expected.

Seriously, what gives? Does anyone with connections have an idea why steel case, FMJ 6.5 Grendel isn't on the shelf of my local gun shop or in stock at Aimsurplus?

Well, my guess is only the factory, (and maybe Wolf) know the whole story. I do know that it is being worked on. I'll be excited if we get it this year.

bwaites

[bwaites]

Just discovered some new information, at least one source online is quoting steel case Grendel at $189/1000 and available later this year.

Go down to where FAC posts in this thread, BTW super cool video at the beginning of the thread, too!

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=136828

[fanofflyn]

I don't plan on putting any steel cased ammo in any of my chambers that I care about. I don't know if what my friends say is true, but it's not worth my chamber to find out.

--fanofflyn

[mtn_shooter]

The more people scared to shoot steel cased ammo the better :)

I know im in for several thousand rounds if its less than $8/box and 2.5moa or better.

[mseric]

Is the Grendel going to suffer with the same reliability and firing pin issues using Steel/Berdan primed Wolf as the AR-15 in 7.62x39 do?

[ss355]

Thanks for the info and the link, Bill. At about 20 cents per round, delivered, that sounds almost too good to be true. Keeping my fingers crossed a while longer.

mseric, I have a factory Armalite in 7.62x39, and after slight modification to the firing pin to provide sufficient protrusion, I've had no light strikes at all, and this with the standard hammer spring.

[noone]

Although I admittedly don't shoot much steel cased Wolf in my 5.56 rifles, the only problems I have had are the weird smell of the burned powder they use, and the marginal accuracy. I have never had any reliability problems, or broken parts as a result of using steel cased ammo.

[warped]

Used in a chrome lined bbl it will be fine for blasting or plinking.

[longdayjake]

Can you imagine how many people it will bring into the 6.5 world? People will start buying 6.5's over .223s because the price will be the same.

[mseric]

mseric, I have a factory Armalite in 7.62x39, and after slight modification to the firing pin to provide sufficient protrusion, I've had no light strikes at all, and this with the standard hammer spring.

Thanks, what's the slight Modification, and do you think it will have to be done to the Grendel as well?

[fanofflyn]

I'm worried about my chamber, with the steel, not the barrel. I reload anyway, and save my brass, just expressing some concerns that others have. I'll use the wolf brass case readily. On the other hand, I've seen lots of testimonials that it is OK too, so I'm sure it's OK. You can shoot my share for me.

--fanofflyn

[z06man]

$189/1k seems unbelievable. You can barely find 6.5 BULLETS for that.

[Alex4922]

I think if it does come on the market I'll reserve its use to my chrome lined J&T. My AA barrel is sooo accurate I don't even like to fire form through it. I would love to see a real world test of steel cases/steel jacket ammo in different types of barrels. As to the 5.56 and wolf, I have used it in carbine classes where lots and lots of ammo was fired (cl Bushy). No reliability probs and the accuracy was ok for 100 yds and less. As others have noted the powder fouling IS at least an order of magnitude more than western ammo.

Alex

[ss355]

mseric, the FP modification I performed was to chuck the FP in my drill press and, using a small hand file, move back the initial shoulder at the tip of the firing pin to prevent that shoulder from bottoming out on the back of the boltface. This lengthens the tip just enough to get protrusion in the .035-.040" range.

z06, I agree that $189 seems unbelievable. I wonder if that price is for 500 instead of 1K. Regardless, I'll keep crossing my fingers for $189.

[montana]

I have shot thousands of rounds of steel case ammo in my 5.56 rifles with no bad effects at all. I have shot them in both SS steel barrels as well as chrome lined barrels. The problem with the 7.62 x.39 in the AR-15 platform is the tapered case tends to extract too quick in a DI gas system causing miss fires. I have had many problems shooting steel case ammo in Bush master barrels. Their chambers seem to be tighter than Stagarms , or Bravo Company hammer forged barrels which work perfectly. The Grendel round doesn't have the extreme taper that the 7.62 X.39 has ,which is why it functions reliably in the DI system. I hope they sell steel case ammo in the grendel for a good price. I would purchase a lot of it and shoot it more. Its a great round.

[ss355]

David Fortier wrote in a thread on ARFcom that he spoke to the owner of Wolf and found out that delivery is supposed to occur later this year. He also wrote that although the price will be more than $189 per K, it is expected to be less than $250 per K retail, in line with their 223 and 7.62x39 prices.

Aimsurplus lists case prices of Wolf 223 and 762x39 at $189 and $199, respectively, so perhaps we can keep our fingers crossed for a quarter or less per round delivered.

[Bronz]

This will make me finally get of the fence on jump on the band wagon.

[LRRPF52]

Gents,

The reliability of Wolf seems to depend on the specific chamber and chamber smoothness of each individual barrel. I've seen one Bushmaster chrome-lined barrel that wouldn't eat it, and the other that would eat it all day long. I had a RRA middy 16" that would eat it for a while, but the moment you let the gun cool down, and then started shooting again...seized cartridge in the chamber.

Had a lightweight 16" pipe from Double Star seize repeatedly, to the point that it required light oil penetrating overnight, and a solid steel cleaning rod to finally get it out, after bending the first cleaning rod.

The best solution to using Wolf seems to be running with a Nitro-carburized barrel with a 5.56 chamber, since they have a Rockwell 70 hardness over the entire surface of the barrel (bore and outside). AR Performance sells various Nitro-carb'd barrels and bolt combos in 7.62x39, 5.56, and 6.8 SPC. I wish he would start making Grendel barrels as a norm, since he has an improved bolt design that deals with these larger-based cases by beefing up the bolt geometry.

6.5 Grendel Wolf in steel cases at more affordable prices would really open up the popularity of the Grendel real quick, especially for those that want to run it as a high-volume blaster, who don't reload. There will be increasing demand for better bolts though, as the round counts increase in shorter time periods.

LRRPF52