Reloading question about shoulder flare and crimping die...

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  • Reloading question about shoulder flare and crimping die...

    Just started reloading rifle rounds (i.e. the grendel and getting ready to do 30-06). I had a friend help me get set up, but I don't want to keep bugging him if someone could help me out here.

    I have a dillon 550 reloader w/ a dedicated tool head for the 6.5 grendel. On that tool head, I have the hornady new dimension seating die and sizing/de-priming die, and the dillon powder die. so, in other words, i have three our of the four stations on my tool head that i'm using. so i guess i don't have a crimping die?

    my tool head and dies are set up properly. and for prep, on my once-shot casings i de-primed/sized the casings, and then i lightly lubed them using a lube pad (being careful not to get any on the outside of the neck - i did the inside of neck and wide part of casing). after this i tumbled them to clean them and also get all of the lube off.

    anyway, i reloaded about 28 rounds the other day and went outside and shot some. after shooting some rounds, my weapon jammed. after the first jam i noticed that the round wasn't seating all the way into the chamber b/c my bold was not all the way forward. it was hard to eject the round, but i did it. well, a few rounds after this i had 2 or 3 in a row do the same as above.

    later when looking at it, i disassembled my weapon and manually tried to seat the rounds i loaded and some factory hornady ammo. the hornady ammo would slide right into and back out of the chamber without issues. the rounds i loaded would only go half way in and then be slightly hard to get them back out again (would have been much harder if i had tried to force the rounds into the chamber).

    Question: this is what i found... the shoulder on the casings that i re-loaded were flared out! and the hornady ones weren't. i don't know how this happened or how to fix it... can someone help me?

    Thanks in advance for even looking at this thread!






  • #2
    1st thing to check is your bullet seating die adjustment. Unscrew your bullet seating die stem from the die body. Now unscrew the die body out of the tool head a few turns. Raise the ram with the empty case in the seating station. With the ram up screw the seater die body back in until you feel it touch the case mouth. When you feel it touch the case, back it out about one complete turn. Next you'll have to readjust your bullet seater die stem back in to seat the bullet the depth or overall length you want. Sounds like your die is trying to crimp and the die is turned in too far causing the shoulder to buckle during the seating operation. You don't need to try to crimp especially with bullets with no cannelure.

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    • #3
      thanks rg!! i'll try that and keep you guys posted... in case someone else has a question about the same thing.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by rg1 View Post
        1st thing to check is your bullet seating die adjustment. Unscrew your bullet seating die stem from the die body. Now unscrew the die body out of the tool head a few turns. Raise the ram with the empty case in the seating station. With the ram up screw the seater die body back in until you feel it touch the case mouth. When you feel it touch the case, back it out about one complete turn. Next you'll have to readjust your bullet seater die stem back in to seat the bullet the depth or overall length you want. Sounds like your die is trying to crimp and the die is turned in too far causing the shoulder to buckle during the seating operation. You don't need to try to crimp especially with bullets with no cannelure.
        Spot on, your seating die is not adjusted properly, Follow RG's advice and you should be fine.

        and for prep, on my once-shot casings i de-primed/sized the casings, and then i lightly lubed them using a lube pad (being careful not to get any on the outside of the neck - i did the inside of neck and wide part of casing). after this i tumbled them to clean them and also get all of the lube off.
        Why are you lubing after you size? Nothing wrong with a little lube on the neck, it's the shoulder that should remain lube free.

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        • #5
          When I first started reloading for the Grendel this past February, I had the same manifestation, but my seating die was at the proper depth. My problem was my Hornady New Dimension sizing die was not manufactured to the best tolerances and caused tight necks. When I went to seat a bullet, there was so much neck tension as to make the bullet seize in the neck and the force required to push it in jammed down on the shoulder giving it the same bulge. I tried stoning the neck portion of the die and in a moment I'm not too proud about, took .0015 too much off, causing it to go the other way, IE insufficient tension. I should have sent it back to Hornady, but at the time, they were out of resizing bodies and I was impatient. I wound up stripping the useful parts off of it, making a paper weight out of the body and bought a Forster sizing die. It was spot on and has produced perfect brass ever since.

          Hoot

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Hoot View Post
            When I first started reloading for the Grendel this past February, I had the same manifestation, but my seating die was at the proper depth. My problem was my Hornady New Dimension sizing die was not manufactured to the best tolerances and caused tight necks. When I went to seat a bullet, there was so much neck tension as to make the bullet seize in the neck and the force required to push it in jammed down on the shoulder giving it the same bulge. I tried stoning the neck portion of the die and in a moment I'm not too proud about, took .0015 too much off, causing it to go the other way, IE insufficient tension. I should have sent it back to Hornady, but at the time, they were out of resizing bodies and I was impatient. I wound up stripping the useful parts off of it, making a paper weight out of the body and bought a Forster sizing die. It was spot on and has produced perfect brass ever since.

            Hoot
            i went ahead and called my friend. this is exactly the first thing he pointed me to - the sizing die. said to size a few casings and see if it flares the shoulder and if so, then i will know that it is the sizing die. at work now... gonna mess w/ it on lunch break and i'll advise.
            Last edited by Guest; 06-20-2011, 02:25 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by mseric View Post
              Why are you lubing after you size? Nothing wrong with a little lube on the neck, it's the shoulder that should remain lube free.
              because someone i respect who has been re-loading for years said if you get too much lube on the outside of the neck when it is in one of the dies (forgot which one, i think its the sizing die) it can create a hydrolic effect on the neck and actually cause a rippling effect around the shoulder area. i may have mis-understood the specifics of what he was saying but i know this is the principle he was tryin to convey.

              and actually i got it wrong in my first post, sorry. i lubed them first before depriming/sizing.

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              • #8
                i found that it was actually my seating die that is causing the shoulders to buckle... it wasn't my sizing die after all! what was recommended to me is to get a tool ($10-15 can't remember name of it, i'll post it later) that will basically shave a hair off of the inside of the case mouth to make it a 45 degree angle outwards as it is probably catching the bullet when it is being seated and buckling the shoulder. i'll let u guys kno more as i find out =)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by in.dmand View Post
                  i went ahead and called my friend. this is exactly the first thing he pointed me to - the sizing die. said to size a few casings and see if it flares the shoulder and if so, then i will know that it is the sizing die. at work now... gonna mess w/ it on lunch break and i'll advise.

                  The sizing die will not flare the shoulder. It may have a tight neck or an undersized expander button which can cause a crushed shoulder during the "Seating" process, but it will not "Flare the shoulder by itself.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by in.dmand View Post
                    i found that it was actually my seating die that is causing the shoulders to buckle... it wasn't my sizing die after all! what was recommended to me is to get a tool ($10-15 can't remember name of it, i'll post it later) that will basically shave a hair off of the inside of the case mouth to make it a 45 degree angle outwards as it is probably catching the bullet when it is being seated and buckling the shoulder. i'll let u guys kno more as i find out =)
                    A debur/chamfer tool.

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                    • #11
                      RG1's guess is what I would have said. The simplest way of saying it is that when screwed down too far, the seating die pushes down on the case mouth causing the case's shoulder to buckle outwards. I found the same thing out with 5.56 cases.

                      Some seating dies have a sort of roll crimp built into them. If the case goes too far into the roll crimp area, the opening of the case mouth gets pushed downwards, which results in the shoulder bulge you have.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rg1 View Post
                        1st thing to check is your bullet seating die adjustment. Unscrew your bullet seating die stem from the die body. Now unscrew the die body out of the tool head a few turns. Raise the ram with the empty case in the seating station. With the ram up screw the seater die body back in until you feel it touch the case mouth. When you feel it touch the case, back it out about one complete turn. Next you'll have to readjust your bullet seater die stem back in to seat the bullet the depth or overall length you want. Sounds like your die is trying to crimp and the die is turned in too far causing the shoulder to buckle during the seating operation. You don't need to try to crimp especially with bullets with no cannelure.
                        RG, you, mseric, and noone were spot on... this was EXACTLY the problem. Took it into my friend to have him look at it w/ me and we did what you recommended. Apparently the seating die was screwed in too far. We backed it out several turns and then adjusted it with the seating stem. The problem is fixed! No more blown out shoulders.... thanks guys! hopefully this will help someone else out.

                        ps. glad I got the chamfer tool, thanks Z06. i will definitely be using it on my rifle casings.

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