25 cal GRENDEL

I know there are a few 25 cal Grendel and variations out there can anyone tell me what velocitys there gettting with 100 gr? Oh and in bolt guns where enchroaching on the cases volume is not necessary.

Thanks

With bullets in 85 and 88 grains I have gotten about 3000 fps.
I have fired the 100 grain sierra but I can't say exactly what the velocity was.
However I will say that powders between HBM and 4895 work best for that weight of bullet.

I just found this on an older post
"Berger 95 Gr FB Hodgdon BenchMark 29.3 grains PMC Russian Red Box primer
LO 2852 HI 2903 AV 2884 ES 51 SD 18 Primers still round at edges no cratering."

Go to this post.
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1001&highlight=257ted

Thanks Ted,

I am looking at many cases for the 25 cal and in doing so i am comparing them to a 250 AI.

I was wondering if simply AI the grendel with the 40deg shoulder would it reach or pass your capacity/velocitys?

I doubt that the improvement would be significant. Going to a 40 degree shoulder would only give about 1/2 a grain increase.
When I originally designed the cartridge I was using 220 Russian brass that had been fire formed into 6PPC and then fire formed to 257Ted.
SO basically I had a 25PPC +.077 at the shoulder with a .285 Neck
But when I started using the 6.5G brass I changed the cartridge to +.075 at the shoulder. This allowed me to simply turn the neck to .0135 thickness and then neck it down to 25 caliber. Saving some brass prep steps.
I found no difference in velocity from the +.077 and .075 versions.
What you might consider is pushing the shoulder forward about .100 along with changing the shoulder angle and you might get an extra 1 grain of powder. The neck is long enough to just tolerate that modification.
Another consideration if you are shooting a bolt gun is to take the 6.8 SPC brass and neck that down. IF you are going to load to Magazine length in an AR this will cause a problem because the 6.8 SPC cartridge is long enough that it caused issues when seating really pointy bullets such as the 10 OG BIB bullets down to magazine length. The 6.8 SPC holds about .4 grains more powder than the Grendel.
The 6mmBR case holds about 1 grain more powder than the 257Ted and Jackie Schmidt has shot the 25BR to a teen agg in registered BR competition. I think the 6.5 x 47 Lapua Brass would be an excellent candidate for a 25 caliber upgrade with more horsepower than the 257TED

Once you get to bullets more than about 110 grains in the Grendel Case you run into the same problems that the 5.56 has with the 77 and 80 grain bullets.
Just not enough case capacity to push the long bullets.
That is why most guys have droped the case for Hi-power and F-class shooting.

When I first started working on the 257TED I had no dreams of using it as a long range cartridge. I simply wanted a gun that would out perform the 5.56 at all ranges by a minimum of 10% with the least ammount of recoil.
Also I had the goal to create a BR cartridge that could out perform the 6PPC in Varmint for Score competition but provide less recoil than the 30BR thus allowing me to shoot free recoil for both Score and Group BenchRest competition.
I will just say it upfront. The Grendel just doesn't have enough grunt to be a good 800 - 1000 yard cartridge. There are so many cartridges including the 308 that will walk away from it that it isn't worth the effort going in that direction.
I have read the stuff where a Grendel can out run a 7.62 at 1000 yards but that is comparing ball ammo to Match Ammo. Once that playing field is leveled the 7.62 is the winner.
Ted
PS one exception to that would be the 6mmAR. I think the cartridge has the capacity to carry the High BC 95 to 107 grain 6mm bullets to 1000 yards and it could be a good across the course cartridge.

I will just say it upfront. The Grendel just doesn't have enough grunt to be a good 800 - 1000 yard cartridge. There are so many cartridges including the 308 that will walk away from it that it isn't worth the effort going in that direction.
I have read the stuff where a Grendel can out run a 7.62 at 1000 yards but that is comparing ball ammo to Match Ammo. Once that playing field is leveled the 7.62 is the winner.
Ted
That is very interesting...I guess no one looks at this when they make the statement about the Grendel.
PS one exception to that would be the 6mmAR. I think the cartridge has the capacity to carry the High BC 95 to 107 grain 6mm bullets to 1000 yards and it could be a good across the course cartridge.
Have you done much with the 6mmAR...I am interested in an AR upper but am messing with the 243 WSSM right now.

When I am looking at the Grendel as a 1000 yard cartridge I am really looking at the results that competition shooters are getting from it and who is getting on board. The few guys who have tried it (walkertxrngr and some others) have droped it in favor of more case capacity.
Now as an assault rifle cartridge it does out perform the 5.56 admirably at all ranges and I think it is better than the 6.8SPC. But it just isn't a viable stand alone 1000 yard cartridge. That isn't what it was desinged for.

I haven't shot or reloaded the 6mmAR. I am going by the results that some of the guys are getting with this cartridge and the numbers are looking good.
Precision shooting had a very nice article about the 6mmAR recently.

I don't shoot Hi-Power or F-Class and for Short range BR I have the 6PPC which is fine. So I haven't worked with the 6mmAR but it really looks great as an AR cartridge. I would guess that ball bullets would weigh in the 70-75 graing range and SPR bullets would be in the 95 to 105 range.

Three of the issues with the 6.8SPC were the higher than expected recoil with the 90grain ball ammo which in turn caused a slow down in the "controlled pair" and the excessive length of the SPR bullets which caused case capacity and crimp issues. The 6.5G to a degree has the some of these same issues. Just not as bad. the 6mmAR is a bit more reasonable on this account.

I am happy with the case and the cartridge I have developed and with some of the new powders coming out I expect to see even more good results.
I will soon give the new 8208XBR a run as it looks very well suited to use with the 85 to 110 grain bullets and if we can see a faster burning version of the new Reloder 17 http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html I would really like to test it. It would be great to push the 88 grain bib to over 3050 fps with a little less preassure. This is just guesswork but In order to get the velocity I like, I am getting pressures at about the 60000 PSI and after about 7 or 8 reloads the bolt gets sticky without full length sizing.


One thing you need to remember is that about 95 percent of the guys who post on this forum are just throwing Ideas out, and only about 5 percent are going out and really trying new things.

Also there are a few guys in BenchRest shooting who are messing with the 30PPC and the 30Grendel/30Major cartridge as an alternative to the 30BR.
But I don't think they offer anything over the 7.62 x 39 in an AR package.
Ted