Here is Re-load data for 130 and 140gr Berger bullets...

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  • Here is Re-load data for 130 and 140gr Berger bullets...

    Hey guys! figured this may be interesting to some of you... i sent an email to the Berger bullet company as i just ordered both of the below bullets since i'm wanting to see what is most accurate in my grendel. this is the email received back from them. the COAL seemed a little off however... it is supposed to be 2.265. i called them on this and they said you can change the COAL but not to mess with the min and maximum loads.

    The load data is below.

    Load data was generated using Quick Load a 24 inch barrel a COAL (cartridge over all length) of 2.200 inches and your COAL and velocity could be a little different.
    AS WITH ALL RELOADING APPROACH THE MAXIMUM LOADS WITH CAUTION AS ALL RIFLES AND RELOADING TECHNIQUES WILL BE DIFFERENT. If YOU CHANGE ANY OF YOUR COMPONENTS; THIS INCLUDES DIFFERENT POWDER LOT NUMBERS; YOU MUST REFIGURE YOUR LOADS BY STARTING WITH THE MINIMUM LOAD.
    If we can be of any additional help feel free to contact us.
    Thanks for your interest and have a great day.

    Walt Berger
    Berger Bullets
    Technical Advisor



  • #2
    Let us know how you get them to shoot, I tried the 130s and couldn't getting them below a1" group at 100.

    Comment

    • sneaky one
      Chieftain
      • Mar 2011
      • 3077

      #3
      Ask them for the data for all bullets, all the way down to the discontinued 85 grn. I have it, and it's good advice.

      Comment


      • #4
        Load data was generated using Quick Load a 24 inch barrel
        Don't you know that QL and it's generated data does not sit well with members here and is considered useless and even dangerous?

        Comment

        • bwaites
          Moderator
          • Mar 2011
          • 4445

          #5
          Originally posted by mseric View Post
          Don't you know that QL and it's generated data does not sit well with members here and is considered useless and even dangerous?
          Useless, no.....To be taken with a big grain of salt? Yes!! For some reason the predictions for QL don't work so well in the Grendel case. It predicts really high numbers sometimes for loads that have proven to be safe, and low numbers for loads that have been shown to be to hot with a pressure breech.

          Start low and work up.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bwaites View Post
            Useless, no.....To be taken with a big grain of salt? Yes!! For some reason the predictions for QL don't work so well in the Grendel case. It predicts really high numbers sometimes for loads that have proven to be safe, and low numbers for loads that have been shown to be to hot with a pressure breech.

            Start low and work up.
            Do you know if that applies to all PPC based cartridges or just the Grendel? Are there any good programs that correctly estimate the Grendel's performance?

            Comment


            • #7
              It predicts really high numbers sometimes for loads that have proven to be safe, and low numbers for loads that have been shown to be to hot with a pressure breech.
              The first half of this I will totally agree with. QL can predict higher numbers if not set up properly. The second half not so much. I have not yet seen any QL generated Grendel data that shows low numbers in loads known to be hot.
              I would love to see some examples of these QL "hot" loads.
              Thanks

              Comment


              • #8
                thanks for the advise guys... no i did not know that QL was looked down on. i am relatively new to reloading rifle rounds, that's why i have been asking a lot of questions. i have not re-loaded these rounds yet, because i want to get the jump and COAL correct. from what i have read, this will make the biggest difference in how accurate your round is. i have also found that you must be careful doing this because if you get the bullet too far into the lands the pressure will build up a lot and can be dangerous. i will definitely have to get some hands on help doing this... and get the right tools. i'll try to keep everyone posted on how accurate these rounds are in my grendel ( i have the 20" sabre defense stainless fluted barrel, 1 in 9 twist).

                i have not customized the 123gr scenar bullet for my barrel, but went with the recommended 2.265" COAL for that round (with hodgdon varget powder - which is what i use). i shot 3" group at 300 yards w/ it. i want to get it dialed in more though, than that. that may have been operator error though =). the thing that struck me about the berger bullets was the BC, really high!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by in.dmand View Post
                  thanks for the advise guys... no i did not know that QL was looked down on. i am relatively new to reloading rifle rounds, that's why i have been asking a lot of questions. i have not re-loaded these rounds yet, because i want to get the jump and COAL correct. from what i have read, this will make the biggest difference in how accurate your round is. i have also found that you must be careful doing this because if you get the bullet too far into the lands the pressure will build up a lot and can be dangerous. i will definitely have to get some hands on help doing this... and get the right tools. i'll try to keep everyone posted on how accurate these rounds are in my grendel ( i have the 20" sabre defense stainless fluted barrel, 1 in 9 twist).

                  i have not customized the 123gr scenar bullet for my barrel, but went with the recommended 2.265" COAL for that round (with hodgdon varget powder - which is what i use). i shot 3" group at 300 yards w/ it. i want to get it dialed in more though, than that. that may have been operator error though =). the thing that struck me about the berger bullets was the BC, really high!
                  I could not seat close enough to the lands and I am afraid you will find yourself up against the same barrier with the Bergers because with AR-15s we are limited to seating to magazine length. But I hope they work for you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nimrod View Post
                    I could not seat close enough to the lands and I am afraid you will find yourself up against the same barrier with the Bergers because with AR-15s we are limited to seating to magazine length. But I hope they work for you.
                    no way! so the magazine COAL limited your round so it could not fit into the lands? that's weird... unless you were adjusting your round to more than 2.265, because i know for sure that COAL will fit in my pmag's because that's what i ran the 123gr scenars.

                    Comment

                    • bwaites
                      Moderator
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 4445

                      #11
                      Originally posted by in.dmand View Post
                      no way! so the magazine COAL limited your round so it could not fit into the lands? that's weird... unless you were adjusting your round to more than 2.265, because i know for sure that COAL will fit in my pmag's because that's what i ran the 123gr scenars.
                      For best accuracy the Berger VLD bullets like to be in the lands, or at least touching them. The magazine length cartridges loaded with Berger VLD's don't allow the Bergers to do so, so you lose some accuracy. On top of that, you can't get enough powder in the case to run them at a high enough velocity to take good advantage of their design.

                      That said, the proof is in the shooting, and if they shoot well from your rifle loaded where they are, that's great!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        For best accuracy the Berger VLD bullets like to be in the lands, or at least touching them.

                        by Eric Stecker, of Berger bullets



                        Since the Berger VLDs have become popular for game hunting we have learned a lot about their seating depth sensitivity. In short the VLDs can be sensitive to seating depth and typically will shoot best at a "sweet spot" in a given rifle. The thing that is contrary to what we believed (and relayed to shooters) for years is that this "sweet spot" could be as much as .150 off the lands.

                        Many hunters who won't put a bullet into the rifling due to problems this may present when removing a round in the field are finding their best precision with a significant jump. For years we suggested putting the VLD into the lands or if you are going to use a jump make it small (like .010).

                        This has been proven to be wrong and we are adjusting our information. (NOTE: In many rifles VLDs shoot best when touching the rifling but this is not as typical as we once believed) Load your ammo with the VLDs using a COAL that is comfortably within magazine length and give them a try. If they don't work well there you might first want to shorten your COAL rather than lengthen.

                        Regarding terminal performance the Berger VLDs act like no other hunting bullet. The VLD shape allows for higher impact velocity (compared to bullet of the same weight). Upon impact the VLD will penetrate 2" to 3" through tissue and bone. After the initial penetration the VLD will start to come apart shedding 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel (depending on impact velocity).

                        This shrapnel is distributed into the surrounding tissue over a 15" to 18" distance. This produces a tremendous amount of tissue damage deep inside the internals of the animal (vital organs). This is like inserting a grenade deep inside the animal which usually drops them in their tracks (due to shock). Those animals that don't go down right away will quickly succumb to the significant amount of internal damage.

                        High weight retaining, deep penetrating bullets act like an arrow relying on hydrostatic shock and pinpoint accuracy on the vital organs. Since these bullets are designed first to retain their weight, accuracy is not as high a priority which makes hitting that vital organ on the first shot a real challenge. The Berger VLD gives you a match grade (accurate) bullet that shoots flatter, is less effected by the wind, hits harder and produces considerably more internal damage than any other "hunting" bullet.

                        Even though you are more likely to achieve accurate and deadly shot placement with a Berger VLD, if you don't a near miss (of the vital organs) is just as deadly producing a quick and humane kill. Try them on your next hunt and I am certain that you will be happy with the results.

                        Regards,
                        Eric

                        Comment

                        • bwaites
                          Moderator
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 4445

                          #13
                          Yes, I've read what Eric posted several time in the past, and its true that you certainly can get decent results from bullets not in the lands. That's why I said the "proof was in the shooting!"

                          That said, see if you find a single competition shooter NOT loading where it at least touches the lands.

                          Besides the fact that the 130's and 140's are really outside the best velocity ranges in the Grendel.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone. Just thought Eric's comments about OAL were pertinent to this discussion.

                            BTW, did you ever find any of that hot over pressure QL generated Grendel data?

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