What am I doing wrong?

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  • What am I doing wrong?

    I'm new to reloading and I keep running into problems with my reloads. When I try to chamber my rounds, the bolt doesn't close all the way and then its tough to eject the round. I basically have to hit the butt of the rifle on the ground and pull the charging handle to get the round out.

    I know it has something to do with the shoulder of the brass but I don't know if I'm oversizing it or undersizing it. I've tried two different dies and presses but I have the same results with both. I basically pull the ram all the way up, screw in the die until it touches the ram, then lower the ram and turn in the die another 1/2 turn.

    Here are some pics:

    The round on the left a factory round and the one on the right is my reload. It may be hard to tell in the pic but it looks like the shoulder on the reload is flatter.









    Do you have any suggestion or can you tell what's wrong?
  • Drifter
    Chieftain
    • Mar 2011
    • 1662

    #2
    First, I suggest getting a case gauge so that brass can be checked after it's resized and before it's loaded. It will save you some headaches when you're ready to go shoot.

    Otherwise, try "painting" a dummy round (with bullets, but no primer or powder) with a black sharpie before chambering. Examine an extracted round and look for marks, smears, shiny spots, etc to help determine which part of the case is problematic. ( I suggest single-feeding dummy rounds without the use of a magazine, so as to prevent unnecessary markings that are unrelated to the issue.)

    My guess is that the shoulder isn't getting set back quite enough. If the test suggested above reveals this, try screwing your die down a little more (1/16 to 1/4 turn). Resize a few cases and try again with dummy rounds . Keep doing that until dummy rounds chamber and extract appropriately.

    It's difficult to see with the naked eye, and difficult to measure differences in the shoulder. We're talking measurements as small as 0.004".

    One other possibility is that the bullet itself is getting jammed in the rifling. ("Paint" the bullets on the dummy rounds too for the test suggested above.)
    Last edited by Drifter; 07-26-2011, 03:44 AM.
    Drifter

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    • #3
      Drifter is right check first but I would certainly be of the opinion that the shoulder needs to go back 0.001" to 0.002"

      Don't worry it happens to all of us, we learn and then go on.

      That Sheridan case gauge is awesome you can see exactly how much the shoulder needs to move by what level the case head comes to.

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      • #4
        Where can you get the sheridan case gauges?

        Comment


        • #5
          From AA is where I got mine!

          Comment

          • Drifter
            Chieftain
            • Mar 2011
            • 1662

            #6
            I use this gauge from AA:

            Drifter

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            • #7
              Check your seating die, i have had them adjusted wrong before so that it was crimping and crushing my shoulders, that is what it looks like to me.

              Comment


              • #8
                Gmar,
                What appears to be happening is common among new reloaders. Get that case gauge and what you will probably find is that your resized cases will drop into the gauge very nicely, but after you seat you bullet, it will drop in but the base of the cartrige will sit just above the edge of the gauge. That tells you that it will jam in your chamber. It may seem like an insignificant change, but thet gauge is right on the money. Inside the tolerances it will fit, outside - it dosen't.
                Nimrod is right on with his observation. I would guess a majority of us have had the experiance. Back the base of your seating die out a full turn, seat a bullet to COAL and remeasure. You want to be close to the spot where the die 'crimps' your case but a hair too far, it will bulge your case, and it will edge out of tolerance. Your normal Gren bullets don't need and aren't designed for crimping. Trial and error with an empty case will get you where you want to be.
                There are several things that may also come into play, but bullet seating is probably the most common cause of the jamming. Read through the pages of the 'Reloading' section of the Forum and you will find alot of good info to help you.

                Comment

                • LR1955
                  Super Moderator
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 3355

                  #9
                  Originally posted by gmar View Post
                  I'm new to reloading and I keep running into problems with my reloads. When I try to chamber my rounds, the bolt doesn't close all the way and then its tough to eject the round. I basically have to hit the butt of the rifle on the ground and pull the charging handle to get the round out.

                  I know it has something to do with the shoulder of the brass but I don't know if I'm oversizing it or undersizing it. I've tried two different dies and presses but I have the same results with both. I basically pull the ram all the way up, screw in the die until it touches the ram, then lower the ram and turn in the die another 1/2 turn.

                  Here are some pics:

                  The round on the left a factory round and the one on the right is my reload. It may be hard to tell in the pic but it looks like the shoulder on the reload is flatter.









                  Do you have any suggestion or can you tell what's wrong?
                  GMAR:

                  This comes up two or three times a month and all from handloaders who haven't had a-lot of experience with gas guns.

                  First, if you are using the Lee sizing die, get rid of it and buy a real sizing die that has some quality control. Run a search on sizing dies or reloading dies and you will find out which ones are most popular.

                  Over 99 percent of the time the cause is not bumping the shoulders back far enough. This means you screw down your sizing die a little more, size and test. Test by inserting your sized case (no bullet or powder) into the chamber, ride your bolt down about half way and let it go. It should chamber the empty brass.

                  Then extract the brass from the chamber. The brass should extract very easily and without effort. If it does, you have sized the brass down enough. If it sticks, even slightly, then screw the sizing die down a bit more and try again.

                  Some guys have had to take their shell holder down a little bit so they could size the brass. Not all shell holders, even of the same make, are the same height.

                  One guy here our of many had his seating die too tight and apparently was bulging the shoulder when seating bullets. This is very rare and is not the rule at all. The rule is that guys are not bumping the shoulders enough.

                  Do not get anal about it. You are shooting a gas blaster and not a ten thousand dollar bench rest bolt action rifle. Bump the shoulders until the brass chambers and extracts easily and you are set.

                  LR55

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    First things first. Take a sized case, no bullet and see if it chambers.
                    If it doesn't, then you know your problem is with the sizing process and you need to correct that first.

                    If it does chamber, then your problem is with the seating process.
                    Setting up the seating die. Size a cleaned case, remove the sizing die, place the sized case into the shell holder and raise the ram, back the adjusting stem way out of the seating die, screw the seating die into the press until you feel it make slight contact with the sized case, lower the ram and back the seating die out of the press one full turn, tighten the locking ring. Now use the seating stem to set the proper OAL.

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                    • #11
                      Hey guys...thank you for all the advice. It gets frustrating to have an awesome round that I can't reload! I have a Wilson case gauge that the resized brass drops into perfectly but it still won't chamber properly. I'm not sure if the base of the brass sticks up after I seat the bullet, I'll have to check when I get home tonight. I'm thinking that I may have I forgotten to backout the seating die when I was setting it up. LR1955, I have both Lee and Forester dies and tried both but I get the same problem. I'm able to load the rounds one by one directly into the chamber and then close the bolt but if I try to load from the magazine, the bolt won't close properly. I will try everyone's advice when I get home tonight. Thanks again for everyone's help!

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                      • sneaky one
                        Chieftain
                        • Mar 2011
                        • 3077

                        #12
                        Hey Gmar, it's probably the magazine lips are not at proper angle to load the round . Load a few- dummy rounds- only, and slowly release the bolt, like slo motion, the center of the bullet tip should hit the middle, to a hair or two above the center of the feed ramp. check it out, it's old data - old forum. , from Bill A. Mags 101.

                        Comment

                        • sneaky one
                          Chieftain
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 3077

                          #13
                          Check out, Brownells ar 15 magazine feed lip adjusting tool --- 12.99, or use a small adjustable- wrench to move the middle to forward portion of the lips upwards. Be careful don't do too much , just a few thous. and check more than adjust. ----------- Damn c -product mags., 40-60 % success rate, if we're lucky .

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                          • #14
                            I think I got it figured out. I came home, resized a piece of brass, it fit in the case gauge and chamber perfectly. I chamfered the inside and outside of the brass. Then I reinstalled my seating die, this time being sure to back it out a 1/2 turn. I loaded a four pieces of brass with bullets and they worked perfectly! I guess when I was seating the bullet, I didn't back out the seating die and it was pushing down the shoulder just enough to cause problems when I was chambering a round. I ordered the Hornday headspace gauges and comparator and will wait until they come in to load any live rounds so that I can be 100% sure. I'm just happy that the four rounds chambered properly and hopefully I won't have too many future problems.

                            Again...thanks for everyone's help!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gmar View Post
                              I think I got it figured out. I came home, resized a piece of brass, it fit in the case gauge and chamber perfectly. I chamfered the inside and outside of the brass. Then I reinstalled my seating die, this time being sure to back it out a 1/2 turn. I loaded a four pieces of brass with bullets and they worked perfectly! I guess when I was seating the bullet, I didn't back out the seating die and it was pushing down the shoulder just enough to cause problems when I was chambering a round. I ordered the Hornday headspace gauges and comparator and will wait until they come in to load any live rounds so that I can be 100% sure. I'm just happy that the four rounds chambered properly and hopefully I won't have too many future problems.

                              Again...thanks for everyone's help!
                              Welcome to the world of reloading! Lol!

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