120g Barnes TTTX: range report

[mpstan]

I know many have gotten away from this bullet for deer hunting but it's the one I bought 6 months ago and thought I'd check it out. Plus I just got my own chrony!

Tried standard range of loads of TAC and 2520.

Found one nice load that gave me a 0.7" group with 4 of 5 rounds... 2408fps, s.d.10. This was 28.6gr of TAC powder; Lapua brass; max mag length

Does anyone see any reason for me to look toward 100g TTSX for my hunting load? Does anyone know what the minimum opening velocity for this bullet? Do my ballistics jive with others'?

I think this is the load I'm going with....

Thanks

[JASmith]

...Does anyone see any reason for me to look toward 100g TTSX for my hunting load?...
Depends on how you like to shoot when hunting. If you use a tactical scope and routinely adjust for the precise range, it may not matter.

On the other hand, if you use a typical hunting scope or prefer not to be so careful with clicks out to 300-400 yards, the 100 grain TTSX does show a somewhat longer point blank range for the typical 10" vital zone.

The added impact velocity will likely result in somewhat more expansion, hence better wound channel.

[mpstan]

I'm not a tactical guy... I have a 19.5 Hunter with a 4-16X Nikon Buckmaster scope with mildot reticle.

Hunted once; never shot at a deer. All pretty new to me. 90% chance I'll be shooting within 100 yds; 100% chance within 300. At 300 I have an 18.5" drop or 1.7 mildots..... I should be able to make this adjustment shouldn't I?l

[warped]

You should be using a 200yd zero

2.20" high at 100yds

[JASmith]

I'm not a tactical guy...90% chance I'll be shooting within 100 yds; 100% chance within 300. At 300 I have an 18.5" drop or 1.7 mildots....
The advice from Warped is about as good as it gets with your description of hunting ranges.

For deer, the 100 gr TTSX is probably an excellent choice. You could also look at the 100 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Their website indicates it is good for "hogs, antelope, deer" and is good between 1800 and 3200 ft/sec.

The trajectory should prove to be a tad flatter over your ranges with the lighter but still very effective bullets.

[gophernuts]

+1 on the 200 yard zero....It will make what you are doing much MUCH easier.

[mseric]

Does anyone know what the minimum opening velocity for this bullet?

I think this is the load I'm going with....

Thanks

I called Barnes a few months ago and asked this very question. I was told that the TSX is 1800fps and the TTSX is 1600fps.

[Hoot]

I hunt the north woods of Minnesota and after 30 years hunting deer here, I have never had a shot beyond 100 yards. There are circumstances where I could feasibly get a shot out to 200 yards down a long stretch of logging trail, but that's about it. I sight in at 100 yards, regardless of the caliber. That having been said, I've always been a big Nosler Ballistic Tip fan. They're simply devastating in the deer. I have yet to need to search further than line of sight from where I shot them and I've only gotten skunked twice in those 30 years.

I am however, getting tired of encountering and spitting out sizable pieces of lead. For every piece I find, there is a good chance I missed several. Lead is a toxin. It's health impact is worse, the younger you are, but it's still a toxin. Having recently tried Barnes bullets on the range, including water jug tests, I am impressed by their consistent reliable performance if I shoot them at the correct velocity. Use an online ballistic calculator and plan on a bullet rated for the slowest velocity you will encounter. They'll do fine at faster. Barnes bullets are ridiculously expensive, but they deliver the goods. Though I will not use them for load experimentation, I will use them for a box of hunting loads as deer season approaches.

After 4 milk jugs full of water, this recently shot bullet weighed 200.7 grains when I loaded it and 200.7 grains recovered from the 4th jug in a line of 7. The first two jugs were rendered to shards. The third one was split open and the final resting jug did not show any adverse trauma other than a quarter sized entry hole.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2qbx16b.jpg

Loaded down and with grits filler to simulate a velocity at 300 yards after leaving the barrel at the same velocity the previous picture used, here's a picture of jug #7 as the bullet waved bye-bye and went on downrange.

http://i54.tinypic.com/o0xn6c.jpg

Zero expansion, though the first two jugs were split somewhat from the force of impact. It might as well have been an FMJ. In their defense, this particular caliber in the pictures has a terrible BC (my choice) and the 300 yard velocity was only 1175 fps. That particular bullet was designed for 1800 fps and the first picture was achieved 15 feet from leaving the barrel at 2300 fps. It is also not the TTSX model, but still demonstrates the precise performance you get from a monolithic bullet engineered from the get-go to behave a certain way. That precision costs, but so does a week in deer camp.

Do your homework ahead of time, pick the right bullet for the velocity and they will do the job.

Hoot

[mpstan]

Thanks for the insights guys. Great photo of an expanded TSX! I reworked my zero and come up with 2.5" high at 100 yds and a maximum point blank range of 265 yds (6" radius for vital area). I don't see shooting this far but if I do I'm at 1930 fps and 993 ft lbs. At 300 yds my holdover is one mildot (1869 fps).

Again, on paper I don't see why I should be considering the 100 TTSX everyone is talking about given my objective (easily less than 300 yd shots) since they seem to group sub MOA. But then again I've never shot a deer.....

[Apexarms]

I am currently shooting 120 gr TTSX's from a 16" Lw barrel. 2359 fps using 30.5 of blc2. Shot a whitetail last week at 165 yds. He never took another step. I will work up some loads with 100gr ttsx to gain more speed.

[LRRPF52]

Apexarms,

Welcome. Are you the actual Apex Arms? I have an Apex handguard on one of my blasters, and really like it. Cerakoted it FDE, along with the rest of the carbine.

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/DSCF0308.jpg

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/DSCF0309.jpg

[mrclif]

This what they told me Mitch,

We would suggest the 6.5mm 100gr TTSX to maximize velocity of the 6.5 Grendel cartridge. We recommend use of the Hodgdon data for bullets of equal weight starting with minimum loads and working up as is customary with the reloading process. At your current velocity of 2300fps you will get good expansion up to about 125yds. If you up your charge you can get good expansion - another 100yds for every 200fps increase in velocity


I know many have gotten away from this bullet for deer hunting but it's the one I bought 6 months ago and thought I'd check it out. Plus I just got my own chrony!

Tried standard range of loads of TAC and 2520.

Found one nice load that gave me a 0.7" group with 4 of 5 rounds... 2408fps, s.d.10. This was 28.6gr of TAC powder; Lapua brass; max mag length

Does anyone see any reason for me to look toward 100g TTSX for my hunting load? Does anyone know what the minimum opening velocity for this bullet? Do my ballistics jive with others'?

I think this is the load I'm going with....

Thanks

[Apexarms]

I am not the apex arms you are thinking if. I used to have a firearms business in Idaho called Apexarms and I still use the name from time to time.

[texasgrunt]

That APEX looks nice. Gives me an idea on how to set up my next build...

Grunt

[Apexarms]

Shot 100gr ttsx's the other day out of the 16" barrel. 30.5 grains of xbr 8208 gave me an average of 2685 fps over 300 fps faster than the 120's. Hornady brass cci 450. These drop to 1800 fps between 450 and 500 yards. I will try these next year for deer.

[JASmith]

Those should do pretty well -- am hoping you get a chance to try them on varmints or hogs between now and then so we can hear how well they do!

[hm2 clark]

MPSTAN, it sounds like we hunt about the same. 18" barrel short to 300 yards range. The 120 Barnes is a great bullet for this but pricy. I have killed deer and hogs with it no problem. It is a little longer and intrudes on the powder in the brass more than I like . The 100 grain Barnes offering is a GREAT choice for the future, if you have the money go for it. But if you want to shoot your Grendel a lot and work up a good hunting load the 120 "regular" soft point hunting bullets work just as well out to 300 yards.

[Drifter]

Shot 100gr ttsx's ... 2685 fps ... These drop to 1800 fps between 450 and 500 yards.

When I run those numbers, I get different data. 1800 fps is ~390 yards.

I just got a reply via e-mail from Barnes regarding minimum expansion velocity for 6.5mm 100gr and 120gr TTSX's. Indication was indeed 1800 fps.

For what it's worth, Barnes offers a 6.8mm 95gr TTSX with reliable expansion at 1600 fps. If they would do the same for the 6.5mm 100gr TTSX, it would theoretically extend the performance range another 100 yards or so.

[smoke13]

So I recently purchased 100 bullets of the Barnes TTSX 120gr. I probably would have gone with a lighter Barnes bullet if I would have read this info first, but that's what I have. Anyways, I was going to use to this bullet to develop a hunting round for the grendel. I've already got IMR 8208 XMR powder that I'm using for SMKs. Does anyone have any load data for the round and powder combination or suggestions on where to start?

[smoke13]

I should have checked the Barnes load data on the IMR site first. I'll run with their load data of 25grs to 28grs max. (2419ft/sec).
I ran these numbers through Bullet Flight ballistic ap. and with the above mentioned max muzzle velocity of 2419 with this load, you will drop down to minimum expansion vel of 1800 ft/sec at 345 yrds (of course this assumes that the published bc is accurate for the G1). I don't see myself every hunting past 300 yrds so this load has good potential. Keep ya'll posted on the actual performance when I get a chance to test it.

[Ullr]

So I recently purchased 100 bullets of the Barnes TTSX 120gr. I probably would have gone with a lighter Barnes bullet if I would have read this info first, but that's what I have.

You shouldn't feel bad about your choice, at all. The 120 is the better bullet. From the same barrel, it will offer higher energy, higher ballistic coefficient, and higher sectional density. The only thing the higher muzzle velocity of the 100 gr gets you is 1" less drop past 400 yards.

[LHClarke]

Apex.........could you send me pics of your deer? Thanks.........


BTW......reason I ask is that I killed a couple of deer this year and I would like to see the damage you experienced with the Barnes projectile. I am seriously considering this loading for next years season and would like to know what sort of deer you are dropping so quickly. I mean weight of course.........

Thank you for the info!

[LRRPF52]

Stopped by Barnes booth today at SHOT and they have some new Long-Range hunting bullets called the LRX series. They have a 127gr .264 LRX that is meant to open up at much lower velocities, but it looks too long for the AR15 frame unfortunately. It will fit with the ogive, but case capacity will be sacrificed. Still should make a good closer range bullet for the Grendel. One of their engineers was saying 1400fps threshold expansion velocity I believe. It isn't as long as the Hornady 120gr GMX, so maybe there is some hope for it in the Grendel. Had a great talk with him about their 6.5 bullets.

[Deezil]

Im a barnes TTSX fan, what would be the optimum weight for the Grendel, Im not sure if I want to use 100gr or 120gr yet.. Thoughts? This will be for deer and coyotes, and whatever else I can find to shoot.

[JASmith]

A lot will depend on your probable hunting ranges and shooting style/equipment.

Both should be equally deadly at all ranges you can reliably hit at.

If you plan to take 90% of your shots at under 300 yards, the 100 gr variant is probably preferred because you can arrange for a zero where you can use more or less the same hold out to between 250 - 300 yards and be able to get by with placing the crosshairs at about the spine for another 50 yards.

On the other hand, if you're planning on taking shots out past 350 yards, have a turreted scope AND are comfortable with setting the right number of clicks, doping wind, uphill and downhill shots, etc. then the 120 gr is likely a better choice. Two reasons: First the heavier, higher BC bullet will buck the wind better. Second the heavier bullet will penetrate better and the higher retained velocity will help with reliable expansion.

[Deezil]

I do plan to use a turret scope, and Im comfy with shots any angle. Thanks for the info. Probably not many shots past 350, but you never know. With a 16" barrel.

[smoke13]

A lot will depend on your probable hunting ranges and shooting style/equipment.

Both should be equally deadly at all ranges you can reliably hit at.

If you plan to take 90% of your shots at under 300 yards, the 100 gr variant is probably preferred because you can arrange for a zero where you can use more or less the same hold out to between 250 - 300 yards and be able to get by with placing the crosshairs at about the spine for another 50 yards.

On the other hand, if you're planning on taking shots out past 350 yards, have a turreted scope AND are comfortable with setting the right number of clicks, doping wind, uphill and downhill shots, etc. then the 120 gr is likely a better choice. Two reasons: First the heavier, higher BC bullet will buck the wind better. Second the heavier bullet will penetrate better and the higher retained velocity will help with reliable expansion.

This statement is a little confusing. The objective is to have enough velocity at range of impact to generate the force needed to expand the deadly sharp pedals. If you don't have the bullet expansion there is zero reason to use the ttsx bullet.

Barnes is reporting that you need at least 1800ft/sec to achieve this expansion. This puts the 120 gr max range at around 350 yrds (depending on load) to utilize the bullets terminal potential. The lighter 100 gr bullet will have high velocity but lighter mass. It's really the impact force that generates the bullet expansion. Force is a function of mass x acceleration. A120gr bullet at 18ft/sec is about 862ft/lbs of force (this must be the force impact threshold for expansion of the 120gr ttsx). To evaluate the 100gr bullet at the same distance you would do a similar calculation to get a apples to apples comparison of force for expansion. This negates the advantages of other factors such as wind drift ect.

[JASmith]

350 yard max range for the 120 gr TTSX is consistent with my understanding for shorter barrels.

The comments about longer ranges apply to longer barrels or to 120 gr-class bullets with lower minimum listed velocities. Remember also that the 1800 ft/sec is not an absolute, so one can expect some expansion at lower velocities.

It's one of the reasons we need to encourage Barnes and others to design bullets with 1400 ft/sec suggested minimum velocities.

[bwaites]

350 yard max range for the 120 gr TTSX is consistent with my understanding for shorter barrels.

The comments about longer ranges apply to longer barrels or to 120 gr-class bullets with lower minimum listed velocities. Remember also that the 1800 ft/sec is not an absolute, so one can expect some expansion at lower velocities.

It's one of the reasons we need to encourage Barnes and others to design bullets with 1400 ft/sec suggested minimum velocities.

Easy to do, hard to accomplish if you aren't using mono-metal bullets, and they are expensive. If you make them expand at low velocities, they have a tendency to blow up at higher velocities, which creates its own issues.

With solid bullets like Barnes, that is mitigated by the monometal construction, but creates real issues with other types of bullets, including even the "bonded" bullets.

We don't need more expensive bullets! LOL!!

[Deezil]

Im still undecided, I guess I dont have to go with Barnes, I just like to shoot all the same stuff in everything. Mule deer up to 300 yds out of my 16", thoughts? I bought primers and the 8208 powder, just have to get some bullets and start the fun...

[Apexarms]

I took some pics in the field and had a camera malfunction. It was an 8 point Idaho Whitetail. I would guess he was 150 lbs. gutted. I was very surprised how fast he dropped.
Apex.........could you send me pics of your deer? Thanks.........


BTW......reason I ask is that I killed a couple of deer this year and I would like to see the damage you experienced with the Barnes projectile. I am seriously considering this loading for next years season and would like to know what sort of deer you are dropping so quickly. I mean weight of course.........

Thank you for the info!

[smoke13]

Take a look at what Barnes has to say from their test lab.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/bullet-talk/lab-tests/

[Apexarms]

I am at 5000'. That might be the difference