couple of reloading questions

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Secret_Squirrel

    couple of reloading questions

    Hello.
    I have been reloading for years, but the grendel is the hardest cartridge i've ever tried to load concerning loading information. On the AA data they call for magnum primers but the hornady and other user data calls for small rifle primers not magnums. I plan on loading some hornady 120gr amax up but am confused as to whose data is more accurate. I want to try and load with 2520 and BL-C(2) and see which performs best for me.

    Should i just follow the hornady data or does anyone have insight on loading data for these powders with the hornady 120gr amax.

    My barrel is only 16". Plan on getting a 24" next year.

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Use whatever primer you have, I prefer Rem 7 1/2 myself. Just start low and work up, you will be fine. If you do your testing with standard primers and you decide to switch to Mag primers, just back your load down and work back up.

    Comment

    • RangerRick

      #3
      First off don't use the Hornady 120 AMax. Use the 123 AMax instead, it was designed for the Grendel, has a better BC, and seems to work well in a lot of different barrels with different loads. It's also the cheapest of the more accurate high BC bullets.

      The 120 AMax is a good bullet but its nose is so fat it forces you to seat very deep, and that reduces the powder load you can use.

      The Sierra 120's are good too, the BC is so-so, but they are easy to get a good load with.

      The very low drag (VLD) bullets can be a pain to get an accurate load with because they are sensitive to the jump distance to the lands. You are constrained by the magazine length of the Grendel, so you may have trouble getting an optimum load with a VLD in your rifle. Or not, it depends on a lot of factors.

      I got excited about the Sierra 123's when they came out and bought a box of 500. They promised to be nearly as good as the Lapua 123, but a lot cheaper.

      I had terrible results at first, but since I had 500 of them, I kept trying. I ended up getting better groups than the Lapua when the powder load went up to near maximum (30.5 grains of 2520), and I seated them as long as I could while being able to fill a magazine. Until then the 123 AMax shot the best out of my rifle with just about any load.

      The loads in all the manuals are VERY conservative. The Alexander Arms data is more realistic but doesn't generate excessive pressures.

      Primers don't seem to make more than a few feet per second difference in my loads, but the magnum or military spec primers are better protection against slam fires.

      The AA data doesn't really "call for" magnum primers, it's just what they used for those loads. The Grendel case is so short, and the powder loads small enough that even ignition is not a problem with any small rifle primer.

      When you wonder whose data is more accurate do you mean in the sense of smallest groups? If so, that takes a little experimentation. Some guys develop an awesome load that stinks in someone else's rifle.

      Some guys on here have two Grendels that have different "favorite" loads.

      Do a little experimenting before you start buying 500 bullet boxes and 8 pound jugs of powder. When you get some loads you like, you can buy in bulk to save even more money.

      The Grendel is a little hard to get the dies set up for sometimes. Be sure it fits easily in a case gauge or you may get stuck rounds.

      Also stay away from the fatter nose bullets or they'll get wedged in the rifling, and may yank the bullet out of the case if you have to clear your chamber on the firing line. It's a pain to clean out all that powder and you'll have to rod the bullet out of the barrel.

      Good luck and we'll be happy to help if we can. Somebody on here that reloads almost certainly has the same barrel as you and does the same kind of shooting.


      Rick
      Last edited by Guest; 08-27-2011, 07:55 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I also have a 16" AA pipe, and haven't had any reloading issues with mine, except for one case that I didn't bump enough for a full-length re-size. I use the Remington 7 1/2 as well. With my first loads, I had .9-1 MOA groups with 123gr Lapua Scenars out of Lapua brass. N140 was too slow, and TAC gave me the velocities I was looking for pushing 120 SMK's. I've gone to working with the 100gr NBT's just for fun, since they have virtually no recoil. I haven't gotten any decent groups with them though, after shooting some Wolf 123gr SP's. Avoid those like the plague.

        In the reloading threads on the old forum, most loads were around 28 grains for powders like 2520 and TAC, and some were experimenting with X-Terminator. There have been some guys having great results with the Leverevolution powder: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...Leverevolution

        I have no issues with Remmy 7 1/2 primers, even in sub-freezing temps.

        Comment

        • Secret_Squirrel

          #5
          Reason why i am going with the 120's, is they are available locally and my longest realistic shot is no more then 300 yards. I would like to shot further but until i.can practice at that distance 300 is the longest, and i wont see any gain from the 123's higher bc.

          What i really need is some good starting and ending points for the 2 powders i have and using both types of primers. I'm not concerned with velocity as much as i am with accuracy and safety. I know the magnum primers will give a slight fps bump but at the cost of higher pressure.

          I have only ever reloaded from a manual so this cartridge is teaching me to work outside the box, and i want to make this first attempt a safe and productive one. I'm used to having a min and max load to work with which the hornady box has, but i need to have confidence in a load using magnum primers also and that is the data i seek most.

          Comment

          • StoneTower

            #6
            Let me read between the lines a bit and try to translate. Could you be getting Large rifle and Small Rifle primers mixed up? There was data on the AA website (I am not sure if it is still there) for the Wolf brass which takes the Large Rifel primers. In both Small and Large Rifle primers there are standard and Magnum versions of the primers. Sometimes Magnum means that they are "hotter" (Large Rifle Mangnum Primers are hotter than standard Large Rifle primers) but I believe in the case of the Small Rifle primer it means that it has a harder cup so that it is safer to use in an autoloader.....end of translation.

            Originally posted by Secret_Squirrel View Post
            Hello.
            I have been reloading for years, but the grendel is the hardest cartridge i've ever tried to load concerning loading information. On the AA data they call for magnum primers but the hornady and other user data calls for small rifle primers not magnums. I plan on loading some hornady 120gr amax up but am confused as to whose data is more accurate. I want to try and load with 2520 and BL-C(2) and see which performs best for me.

            Should i just follow the hornady data or does anyone have insight on loading data for these powders with the hornady 120gr amax.

            My barrel is only 16". Plan on getting a 24" next year.

            Thanks.

            Comment

            • LR1955
              Super Moderator
              • Mar 2011
              • 3355

              #7
              Originally posted by Secret_Squirrel View Post
              Reason why i am going with the 120's, is they are available locally and my longest realistic shot is no more then 300 yards. I would like to shot further but until i.can practice at that distance 300 is the longest, and i wont see any gain from the 123's higher bc.

              What i really need is some good starting and ending points for the 2 powders i have and using both types of primers. I'm not concerned with velocity as much as i am with accuracy and safety. I know the magnum primers will give a slight fps bump but at the cost of higher pressure.

              I have only ever reloaded from a manual so this cartridge is teaching me to work outside the box, and i want to make this first attempt a safe and productive one. I'm used to having a min and max load to work with which the hornady box has, but i need to have confidence in a load using magnum primers also and that is the data i seek most.
              SS:

              The issue with the 120 AMAX bullets seemed to be their ogive. Apparently it is somewhere around a 7 and so guys had to seat it very deeply into their cases for it to chamber without getting jammed into the lands. No one got good results from what I can remember on the threads that dealt with the 120 AMAX.

              Look at the AA load data. When Alexander had load data for the Wolf brass that used the large rifle primers, the load data was identical to that used in the small rifle primed AA / Lapua brass. As for loads, as someone else stated, 28 grains is a good start point. 30 grains is about max. However, if you end up having to seat those bullets very deeply into your cartridge, you will be using up case capacity so I would start with 28 grains.

              LR1955

              Comment


              • #8
                120 AMAX's with the more blunt nose profile will likely force you to seat deeper, as mentioned above. Seating deeper means decreased case volume, which also equals more pressure. I would highly recommend you use the Sierra 120 Match Kings instead of the 120 AMAX. You could also use the 123 AMAX's, as suggested, since that bullet has an ogive more appropriate for the Grendel. Since you are only shooting to 300 yards, you could even use lighter bullets, as it won't matter, and lighter/faster will be better at that range anyway. After trying the

                The mid/high-20gr range would be a reasonable place to start with powders like 2520, TAC, and Blc-2. If it were me, I would load starting at and work up from there with 2520 and the 120 SMK's. The 120 AMAX might have a very long bearing surface, which will drag more and increase pressure spikes with the case capacity of the Grendel.

                With 120 SMK's, once-fired Lapua brass, Rem 7 1/2 primers, I got the following out of a 16" AA pipe using TAC:

                28.3gr..............2404fps avg 1/5 cases had light ejector swipe
                28.6gr..............2455fps avg same
                28.8gr..............2470fps avg 4/5 cases had light ejector swipes
                30.0gr..............2527fps avg 4/5 cases had light ejector swipes

                Recoil was more noticeable as the charge weights increased. I use a Spike's ST-T2 heavy tungsten-filled buffer, with an M16 carrier, by the way.

                I tried some starting loads with TAC and the 123gr Scenars, going up to 27.2gr, and that only gave me 2277 fps with no pressure signs at all. Those were also Moly Scenars, so factor that in.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Small rifle mag primers are hotter than small rifle primers. Same thing with large rifle or any primer for that matter. Reduce your loads if you use mag primers then work up. The only time I've used mag primers was because of the past shortages of regular non-mag. This is a small amount of powder relativly speaking. If you use a ball powder, you might get a more complete burn using mag primers. Like was mentioned above, some have large primers. The plain large rifle primer is plenty for any load if that's what case you're using. I use non-mag primers in my 6.5 WSM rounds w/o needing mag's.

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X