CFE 223 powder charge

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  • Fredman
    Warrior
    • Sep 2014
    • 311

    CFE 223 powder charge

    I have been looking all over for a load foe the following. 123g Sierra & Lapua, and 120 SMK. Best I can figure out is 28-31 grains. Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Terry
  • JASmith
    Chieftain
    • Sep 2014
    • 1620

    #2
    That is a comfortable level, and one might be able to sneak above 31.0 by a bit while exercising due caution with respect to pressure signs and consistency in your chamber and with your bullet.

    Bear in mind, however, that charge weights above 29gr are likely to be compressed.

    ...and I almost forgot to check my copy of Vol 2 of the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook! There is a double handful of loads using CFE 223 with bullets in your weight range.
    Last edited by JASmith; 08-16-2015, 12:59 PM.
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    • Fourm Member
      Unwashed
      • Aug 2015
      • 7

      #3
      My handbook shows 26.2 to 31.2 CFE-223 gives 2100 to 2500 fps out of aan 18" barrel. This weekend I ran 27-31 CFE-223 in .5 increments with SMK 123s. One blown primer at 31 and primers did not look happy. So I loaded some 123 a-max and SMK at 30.3 CFE-223 and tried them today. Two blown primers out of 40 rounds, ambient temp 93 deg F.

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      • dmsims21
        Warrior
        • Nov 2012
        • 430

        #4
        What was your seating depth on those blown primers. Maybe the bullets were jammed into the lands?
        I can safely load 31.2gr of CFE under 123 A-max. That load is over gassed compared to other loads. Most everything thing I shoot cycles fine, but I have to dial down the gas block a click or two for my CFE loads. Otherwise, the bolt moves too fast and won't lock back on an empty mag
        www.FriendsvillePrecision.com - AR15 Dry Fire Device

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        • Fourm Member
          Unwashed
          • Aug 2015
          • 7

          #5
          2.295" is seating fully on my shilen barrel/bolt with 123 a-max, I reloaded to 2.255' and used cci-400 primers. There should be .040" "jump" for an a-max on my barrel/bolt combination.

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          • dmsims21
            Warrior
            • Nov 2012
            • 430

            #6
            You aren't jammed into the lands then.
            What exactly do you mean by blown primers? We're they blown out of the case, or were they peirced?
            www.FriendsvillePrecision.com - AR15 Dry Fire Device

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            • Fourm Member
              Unwashed
              • Aug 2015
              • 7

              #7
              The center of the primer was blown out at the firing pin opening. I call that blown but pierced sounds good too. I would take a pic but they are resized and in the tumbler now. I figured the high temp had something to do with it.

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              • Fredman
                Warrior
                • Sep 2014
                • 311

                #8
                Thanks. I will approach 31.0 with caution. Shot some 120SMKs with 8208 today. Shows promise. Having a hard time finding that perfect load...

                Comment

                • pds
                  Warrior
                  • Dec 2012
                  • 128

                  #9
                  CCI #400 primers have thin cups which will cause the pierced cup effect at the spot where the firing pin hits the primer like you are seeing. You need to switch to CCI #450, Rem 71/2, Fed 205m or Wolf Small Rifle Mag primers all of these have thicker primer cups and will fix this issue. Many shooters have 31.0-32.0 grains of CFE223 powder with 123 gr. bullets when using one of these thicker cup primers.

                  PDS

                  Comment

                  • GSPHunter
                    Warrior
                    • Jun 2014
                    • 106

                    #10
                    Hi Fredman,

                    I've had similar problems with both cci400's and BR4's.....BR-4's are the same thickness as cci450's so I just figured that the bullet was getting pushed into the lands by the primer without enough powder burning to keep it moving, causing a high pressure spike. I've had no problems with cci450's. Seating the bullet deeper also fixed the piercing/cratering issues for me, but accuracy was lost by doing so.

                    Comment

                    • martkin64
                      Bloodstained
                      • Mar 2015
                      • 38

                      #11
                      I have been working my way up with the CFE 223..... Today I shot 40 rnds with it... I started with 26.5 grn and worked my way up to 28 grn moving up in .5 increments... With 123 grn Hornady SST...... It appears that 28 grn is getting real close to the sweet spot for me. In a 20 inch Barrel. I am using Federal match grade AR primers. Now that you posted this I think I'm going to move up real slow from here.

                      Comment

                      • tackdriver
                        Warrior
                        • Feb 2013
                        • 562

                        #12
                        By moving up slowly you might want to consider .3gr at a time. .5gr jumps can "jump the burm" pretty quick as .5gr is a good bit higher % in the smaller capacity cartridge, not the same as .5gr in .308win

                        Comment

                        • LRRPF52
                          Super Moderator
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 8569

                          #13
                          Originally posted by martkin64 View Post
                          I have been working my way up with the CFE 223..... Today I shot 40 rnds with it... I started with 26.5 grn and worked my way up to 28 grn moving up in .5 increments... With 123 grn Hornady SST...... It appears that 28 grn is getting real close to the sweet spot for me. In a 20 inch Barrel. I am using Federal match grade AR primers. Now that you posted this I think I'm going to move up real slow from here.
                          For CFE223, you can start with 30.0gr with the 123gr SST. With a SAAMI chamber, 31.9gr is about max.

                          Use .3gr increments following the 1% guideline where we only increase with 1% usable case volume increments, regardless of cartridge.

                          6.5 Grendel with CFE under 123gr averages around 31.0gr of usable capacity, so 1% of 31.0gr = .3gr.

                          .270 Winchester with H 4831 under 130gr uses 56.5gr, so 1% = .6gr.
                          NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                          CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                          6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                          www.AR15buildbox.com

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                          • lwminton
                            Warrior
                            • Nov 2014
                            • 143

                            #14
                            Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
                            For CFE223, you can start with 30.0gr with the 123gr SST. With a SAAMI chamber, 31.9gr is about max.

                            Use .3gr increments following the 1% guideline where we only increase with 1% usable case volume increments, regardless of cartridge.

                            6.5 Grendel with CFE under 123gr averages around 31.0gr of usable capacity, so 1% of 31.0gr = .3gr.

                            .270 Winchester with H 4831 under 130gr uses 56.5gr, so 1% = .6gr.
                            What would that calculation be for a 100-105 gr bullet?

                            Comment

                            • Fourm Member
                              Unwashed
                              • Aug 2015
                              • 7

                              #15
                              Originally posted by pds View Post
                              CCI #400 primers have thin cups which will cause the pierced cup effect at the spot where the firing pin hits the primer like you are seeing. You need to switch to CCI #450, Rem 71/2, Fed 205m or Wolf Small Rifle Mag primers all of these have thicker primer cups and will fix this issue. Many shooters have 31.0-32.0 grains of CFE223 powder with 123 gr. bullets when using one of these thicker cup primers.

                              PDS
                              Thanks for the information PDS! I am just now getting into Grendel so I am learning a lot.

                              FYI I resize 7.62x39 to grendel, the cases use large rifle primers. I have yet to pierce/blow a large rifle primer with the same load that will blow a cci 400. Small rifle magnum primers are hard to come by in my neck of the woods, so I am thinking about buying lapua 7.62x39 brass and resizing/fire forming it just for the large rifle primers.

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