Berger 130 AR Hybrid OTM Tac's & CFE 223

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  • NugginFutz
    Chieftain
    • Aug 2013
    • 2622

    Berger 130 AR Hybrid OTM Tac's & CFE 223

    I recently decided to check out this new(ish) Berger, since it was both a heavier pill than any other I've fed my rifles, and was specifically designed with the AR (magazines) in mind.

    First Impressions:

    These new Berger 130 Hybrids are actually quite remarkable. One of the horde members asked me if I would be meplating or pointing these, and I responded that I would shoot them first before making any decisions. Well, after doing so, there doesn't appear to be any need. First, I have to say that the weight is every consistent. They all weighed 129.9 - 130.0 grains, with the distribution slightly favoring 129.9.

    Here is a comparison picture of some of the 6.5's I happen to have on hand.
    IMG_0112.jpg
    Left to right: Hornady 95 Vmax, Sierra 120 Match King, Hornady 123 Amax, and Berger 130 AR Hybrid OTM

    What really got my attention, though, was the seated lengths. Of all the different bullets I've loaded, these are far and away the most consistent I've ever seen. Once I set the seating die, each and every one of the 40 rounds I loaded measured exactly 2.260". Not a single exception. I've never before seen that degree of consistency.

    Bottom line on the projectiles is that if you have a consistency problem, I doubt it would be because of these bullets. They are advertised as Match grade, and I would definitely take them at their word.

    The Loads:

    I loaded these beauties into a family of Hornady Brass, now on their 4th loading. CCI 450 primers were used, and the powder selected for these 130 grain pills was CFE-223. I chose CFE-223 primarily due to recommendations for its use with the heavier projectiles.

    Primers were hand seated, and my ChargeMaster did the honors of measuring the loads. Powder charges ranged from 28.8 to 31.5 grains, in 0.3 grain increments. The Berger 130's were then seated at 2.260", as previously mentioned. I checked concentricity, and all were <= .001" of runout. Seated at this depth, I suspect that compressed loads began at about 31.0 grains, but not seriously so.

    Here are samples of loaded 130 Bergers, left, compared to Factory 123 SST's, right.

    IMG_2125.jpg



    Ok - shoot it:

    The rifle has a BHW 18" 264LBC Match Grade barrel, with 1:8 twist. This is comfortably faster than the Minimum 1:10" or the 1:9" Optimal rates indicated by Berger.

    At the range, it was a brisk 37 'F, partly cloudy, 7-10 mph winds @ 11:00 o'clock.

    From 28.8 gr to 30.0, my 18" BHW was not at all happy with this new diet. Velocities were between a sedate 2214 fps and 2340 fps. At 30.3, things began to improve, with a very good node appearing at 2363 fps. (30.6 gr.) The other promising node appeared at 31.5 gr, which was a more respectable 2409 fps. On either side of the two nodes, group sizes definitely opened up, so it would seem that this barrel has very specific tastes.

    Below is the best group, found @ 2363 fps. ETE was .585", resulting in a 0.32" CTC group.
    IMG_2128.jpg

    Admittedly, 3 shots aren't optimal for choosing final loads, and I intend to return with more rounds loaded at the ID'd nodes. I will be able to better tune the load and record better data from a larger sample at that time.

    At that time, I'll stretch their legs, and see what kind of real world drop I get from the Bergers. Even at 2360 fps, calculations would suggest that they will stay supersonic to 1220 yards at my 5200 feet ASL.
    Last edited by NugginFutz; 03-14-2019, 02:25 PM.
    If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?
  • kmon
    Chieftain
    • Feb 2015
    • 2096

    #2
    You are working with what has proven to be the most accurate bullet I have tried yet in my 2 6.5 Grendels. Note you are well above the max loads listed by Berger which I found to be low. The load I am loading now is CFE-223 30.3gr 2.265 oal. I get 3/4 inch groups from the AR and .2 to .4 from the boltaction with that load.

    There is another thread from last year that someone posted a chart with Berger's data in.

    Comment

    • LRRPF52
      Super Moderator
      • Sep 2014
      • 8612

      #3
      Great report. Out of a 22" or 24", going 2500fps is a competitive long range load. Guys that shoot the 90gr .224" Berger in Hi Power have been beating .308 for a long time at 1000yds, and they push that to 2500fps from 20" guns.

      BC on the 130gr Hybrid is better.

      Load up 10 each of your node areas and see what they do at 300yds from a very solid rest settled in.
      NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

      CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

      6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

      www.AR15buildbox.com

      Comment

      • 1911man
        Warrior
        • May 2015
        • 482

        #4
        Very nice info. I am especially interested in your future results as I am sporting an 18" BHW barrel.

        Comment

        • NugginFutz
          Chieftain
          • Aug 2013
          • 2622

          #5
          Originally posted by kmon View Post
          You are working with what has proven to be the most accurate bullet I have tried yet in my 2 6.5 Grendels. Note you are well above the max loads listed by Berger which I found to be low. The load I am loading now is CFE-223 30.3gr 2.265 oal. I get 3/4 inch groups from the AR and .2 to .4 from the boltaction with that load.

          There is another thread from last year that someone posted a chart with Berger's data in.
          I was concerned about possibly being over max load, but could not find a manufacturer's load specific to these. The table you mentioned was for a different bullet, P/N 26403, which is their 130 Grain VLD Hollow Point Boat Tail. I based my loads off several sources, which included some from this board, the 65 Reloading Guide, Vol 2., and Hornady's Vol. 9.

          Ultimately, I started at a sufficiently low charge and worked up. In the field, I noticed no velocity excursions or signs of pressure on the case heads or primers. Even as I sit here now, looking at the case heads under high magnification, they are indistinguishable from one another. It does bear mentioning that these were all fired with the rounds stored at temps just above freezing (37'F). With CFE223 and its known temperature sensitivity, there is a significant pressure swing to look forward to when the temperatures warm up. I have one accuracy node within 3 of 4 sources estimated max charges, so if it turns out that 31.x gr is too much, I can run the lower charge level.
          If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

          Comment

          • kmon
            Chieftain
            • Feb 2015
            • 2096

            #6
            When I got those bullets last year I called Berger and they told me use the same data as the 130VLD, which I did then worked higher starting first in the bolt action. When I was doing load workup I think the "coolest" day was 97 degrees and the hottest 103, so definitely a bit warmer. With those temps I stopped at 30.9 gr since bolt lift had started getting a little sticky with quite a bit of primer flattening which we all know is not that great an indicator but that load also had a little swipe on the brass at those temps. 30.3 has since proved like I mentioned very accurate and I bet a better driver could get a little better out of it. With temps in the 70s the AR AA 24 inch Overwatch upper on a spikes lower those 30.3 loads have produced nice groups without brass pressure signs and brass ejection is to the same general place as Hornady factory A-Max loads.

            Of course we are talking different guns and that can sure make a difference as well.

            Comment

            • pdq5oh
              Bloodstained
              • Jun 2015
              • 53

              #7
              I can't remember the load data other than 2.265 OAL and CFE. Groups at 100 were dismal but, I had good luck on 1000 yd steel. This suggests to me they stabilized farther out and would shoot better farther out. 1:9 BHW 20" barrel. I also found that Berger's load data was way low. IIRC, my velocities were around 2425. I recently got a Savage .260 Remington. 24" 1:8 barrel. It seems to like the Bergers so far. 43 gr of I4350 has them going around 2850. My Grendel really likes the 123 SSTs. These shoot well at any distance so I'll just shoot them. Good luck with the Bergers as they are a very good bullet.
              Phil

              Comment

              • Casper77
                Bloodstained
                • Nov 2015
                • 93

                #8
                Thanks for posting your work. Looking forward to seeing how they perform at the longer distances.

                Comment

                • dfp23
                  Bloodstained
                  • Nov 2015
                  • 39

                  #9
                  I have had a lot of success with these rounds loaded at 30.3 gr CFE, 1.692" (Ogive), 2.298" OAL. (they feed fine in a magazine). I did an OCW work up at a 100 yds finding that 30.3 gr of CFE group the best with sub 10 SD. I loaded a bunch up and have done some long range stuff. I have shot the round from 400 out to 1100 on steel. I am getting higher hit %s with these rounds compared to the 123 AMAXs and 123 Nosler CC. Of course you have to take that statement with a grain of salt. Way too many variables to control. I am running a 24" bartlein in a PF upper and getting an average fps of 2547 with that load at a DA of 6122 See pics below:

                  IMG_1542.jpgIMG_1543.jpgIMG_1538.jpg

                  Comment

                  • LRRPF52
                    Super Moderator
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 8612

                    #10
                    2547fps with the 130gr Hybrid is a competitive load, will beat .308 easily.

                    My .260 Rem hits that speed at 150yds with the 130gr VLD.
                    NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                    CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                    6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                    www.AR15buildbox.com

                    Comment

                    • BluntForceTrauma
                      Administrator
                      • Feb 2011
                      • 3900

                      #11
                      Hornady's reloading manual for 6.5 Grendel has the 129 class of bullet at a max loading of 31.7 CFE at 2.245 COL getting around 2300 fps.

                      I think the Berger 130 has less bearing surface, but 31.7 is not a typo, is it?
                      :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

                      :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

                      Comment

                      • cory
                        Chieftain
                        • Jun 2012
                        • 2987

                        #12
                        Originally posted by BluntForceTrauma View Post
                        ...I think the Berger 130 has less bearing surface, but 31.7 is not a typo, is it?
                        That seems about right.
                        "Those who sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin

                        Comment

                        • Fredman
                          Warrior
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 311

                          #13
                          So, how would 8208 work with this bullet? I couldn't find anything in my books on this powder. I have a little CFE I could try. Also I have several pounds of N140. Could I use the Scirroco data for N140 and Berger Hybrids?

                          Comment

                          • Joseph5
                            Warrior
                            • Oct 2012
                            • 370

                            #14
                            8208 works better with lighter bullets. People have been reporting best results with 130r bullets with CFE223 and Leverrevolution.

                            Comment

                            • Fredman
                              Warrior
                              • Sep 2014
                              • 311

                              #15
                              Thanks. I was afeared of that. I really 8208 and have a bunch of it. But, a Berger bullet designed for ARs? Got to try it.

                              Comment

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