Leverevolution

[Josh Haker]

If you were to make some loads with this powder where would you start? I am new to reloading. I have seen where some people are using around 31 grains which is more than is recommended for other powders. Is this due to the shape of the powder as compared to other recommended loads from say Hodgdon?

The components I have are: 123 sst, 120 nos bt, 130 nos accubond, remington 7 1/2 primers, and leverevolution.

Thanks for the guidance!

(I have a 18 inch barrel in an AR)

[rwh]

I have shot some 31 gr LVR loads with the berger 130 bullets and CCI 450 primers. In my testing pressure signs started around 30.4 gr and the primers were starting to flatten at 31 gr. Different bullets, primer, even batches of powder will be different and temperature is also a factor. I would recommend starting around 28 gr and work up. I found that LVR needs magnum primers. I got terrible results with BR4 primers and things were much better with the CCI 450. Start low and work up. If accuracy isn't there with the 7 1/2 primers try magnum primers. If you see any flattening at all on your primers your load is too hot. You should also measure the base of your brass and check for expansion. Once I find a load that works I like to run a small batch of brass (10 pieces or so) through 10 reloads to see what case life is like. If you aren't getting good case life your load is too hot even without other pressure signs.

[biodsl]

Following RWH's and a couple of others lead, I've settled on a LVR load of 30.6 grains for the Berger 130. CCI 450 primers at a 2.265 COAL I don't see pressure signs in my BHW .264LBC chamber but higher charges weren't as accurate.

[GSPHunter]

I found that LVR needs magnum primers.

+1 on this!

[Retro]

I read that the VMD is the same as H110. I loaded some 123 gr amax at 28gr as a starter load and I'll work up from there. When I did the math on the VMD and converted to CC for the Lee Perfect powder measure then weighed it the grains came out at 30.1 gr. So the weight is very similar to the H110.

[SDguy]

I have shot some 31 gr LVR loads with the berger 130 bullets and CCI 450 primers. In my testing pressure signs started around 30.4 gr and the primers were starting to flatten at 31 gr. Different bullets, primer, even batches of powder will be different and temperature is also a factor. I would recommend starting around 28 gr and work up. I found that LVR needs magnum primers. I got terrible results with BR4 primers and things were much better with the CCI 450. Start low and work up. If accuracy isn't there with the 7 1/2 primers try magnum primers. If you see any flattening at all on your primers your load is too hot. You should also measure the base of your brass and check for expansion. Once I find a load that works I like to run a small batch of brass (10 pieces or so) through 10 reloads to see what case life is like. If you aren't getting good case life your load is too hot even without other pressure signs.

Generally great advice here. I may question only the flattened primers at 31 grains. Reason I question a flattened CCI450 primer at 31 grains is my experience has been substantially different with a bolt action CZ527 & a CSS chamber - neck sized only brass.

My charge goes a lot higher B4 cci450 primers begin to flatten. I am getting a sticky bolt lift B4 flattened primers start to show.

RWH any idea how much you are setting the shoulder back when full length resizing?

[LR1955]

If you were to make some loads with this powder where would you start? I am new to reloading. I have seen where some people are using around 31 grains which is more than is recommended for other powders. Is this due to the shape of the powder as compared to other recommended loads from say Hodgdon?

The components I have are: 123 sst, 120 nos bt, 130 nos accubond, remington 7 1/2 primers, and leverevolution.

Thanks for the guidance!

(I have a 18 inch barrel in an AR)

Josh:

I would start with looking at the loading data published by the powder or bullet companies. All of them provide information on line so it is easy to find stuff.

LRRP 52 sells a complete Grendel loading manual which is the most comprehensive load manual specifically for the Grendel that you will find. If you are new to handloading and the Grendel, I would recommend you buy this manual.

Also, the forum has several stickies with reloading information to include the on line info.

I would avoid comparing powders unless the powder company specifically states their powder is the exact same as a powder using another name.

I would get some CCI-450 primers since they will be the ones you most see in load data. No one here I can recall has ever gone wrong with the CCI-450's in terms of safety.

I would never use a powder burn rate chart as a decision making device when it comes to using powders you can not find in published load data. There is enough published data these days where no one should have a need for experimenting.

I would never deliberately overload a Grendel for an AR-15. We have found over the years that the extra five feet per second you get is not worth sheared bolt lugs or other damage to the rifle. Bolt guns may be another story.

LR55

[Josh Haker]

Is a CCI magnum primer hotter than a Remington 7 1/2?

And when primers start to flatten does that mean the dent from the firing pin starts to flatten?

[LR1955]

Is a CCI magnum primer hotter than a Remington 7 1/2?

And when primers start to flatten does that mean the dent from the firing pin starts to flatten?

Josh:

Go to the 'Advanced Search' feature and type in 'Primers'.

You will find out everything you could dream of about primers. The more recent primer threads are extremely useful.

LR55

[LRRPF52]

I read that the VMD is the same as H110. I loaded some 123 gr amax at 28gr as a starter load and I'll work up from there. When I did the math on the VMD and converted to CC for the Lee Perfect powder measure then weighed it the grains came out at 30.1 gr. So the weight is very similar to the H110.

Stop! H110 is way too fast for 6.5 Grendel! There is no load data anywhere near that burn rate even for the lightest projectiles in 6.5 Grendel.

The fastest powders we use are AA2200, X-Terminator, H-322, H-335, Norma 200, and these are for 85gr or GS Customs HV bullets with driving bands and almost no bearing surface.

For 123gr, don't go faster than 8208XBR or H-335 is my recommendation. For 8208XBR, 28.5gr is your max under 123gr, and that needs to be worked up to depending on your chamber and seating depth.

For 123gr, I really like CFE223.

[Retro]

Had this discussion in private with LRRPF52 but want to clarify what I was saying in the comparison to H110. I'm not comparing the powders for use in a Grendel or anything else. I have never used the H110 as I don't have anything requiring that fast of a powder. The only thing that I was comparing was that the weight of the powders for the purpose of using a Lee Perfect Powder Measure were similar. I have a "powder burn rate chart" that shows where most of the powders used in the Grendel relate and the H110 is way outside of that scale. Sorry for any confusion that I may have caused. I actually have two go to powders now, 8208XBR and H335. I also have some AR-Comp that I've used and some Leverevolution. Since I'm fairly new to the Grendel and this forum I believe the recipes that I've found here and feel safe in using them. This forum is great for us Newbies as we don't have to do the experimentation that the older members have done.

[6.5 Grendel]

I load 32.3 grs of Leverevelotion with 123gr SST's coal of 2.250 I my 20" LBC for 2650fps primers still round

[SDguy]

I can't explain why my loads start to show pressure signs at 31.0 grains and yours don't but it could have to do with OAL, mine is 2.275, or case volume. I set my cases back .003. There could also be different freebore in our chambers. My chamber started out as SAAMI minimum but I had it throated so that I could load 108 gr scenars at magazine length with a jump of .020.

RWH

I guss I had an incorrect consideration that you may have been dealing with excess head space. The excess head space situation is one potential cause of flattened primers.

In a excess head space situation the firing pin may push the cartridge forward, then detonate the powder charge. With the cartridge forward the side-walls of the case expand first, along with the primer pushing back. With the primer pushed back the cartridge then is stretched back with the site walls firmly held agents the side walls. The case then stretches until the cartridge head makes full contact with the bolt face. in this case one may experience very flat primers at a low to moderate pressure.

This still leaves me wondering if your bolt may be opening somewhat premature when using this powder. If your cases are not stretching more than normal this is not a concern.

Other Form member who is largely been an influance in opening my eyes to the potential of Leverevolution in the 6.5 Grendel and for that I am thankful. If they were not having the similar experience to mine I would not ever question your experiences.

Up to recently I have loaded Virgin brass or only neck sized brass. I was full length sizing cases for the first time recently. These full length sized cases were then provided with what has been a mild load of 31.6 grains of the given lot of LVR. A 129 grain Hornady was loaded at 2.250 OAL which is into the lands in my rifle. Again no pressure signs.

This leaves me up in the air over why you are experiensing and or noticing flattened primers at a much lower charge than I have been.

Lots of variables that are distinctly different between our rifle chambers, actions and loading process. Suppose I should not be to troubled with the fact our experiences vary as much as they do. Still if there is something to learn here I am interested in understanding the variables that are responsible for our different experiences. Currently I am leaning towards Lot of powder.

[rwh]

I would not be at all surprised if there is disagreement about whether the primers I think are flat are really flat. They could still be considered round but they are also somewhat flattened. I am not getting excessive stretching and my fired cases still fit in the chamber so I think the rifle is running pretty well. I am not at all inclined to push the limits of my grendel. I've been getting 2575 fps out of a 28" barrel with the 130 gr bullets and that's fast enough for me.

[SDguy]

RWH

I expect anything up to your upper load will be very friendly to your brass. Have you honed in on a accuracy node yet?