123 SST no expansion

[AmishEskimoNinja]

My AA 20" grendel took its first victim this weekend. Missouri Whitetail. I cooked up the following load, mainly because it was similar to my 1/4 MOA A-MAX load:

123 gr Hornady SST
27.1 gr 8208XBR
Hornady Brass
Rem 7 1/2 primer

The weird thing is there was no entrance and no exit wound. It was like a stealth bullet. I couldn't tell where I hit it until I was on the inside of the deer. I collapsed both lungs which is why the deer went down. But the SST pretty much had zero expansion. It looked like the deer had been shot with an FMJ round. Is this what I should expect from an SST shot from a grendel? Is there a better hunting bullet for thin skin game? I plan to go hog hunting in February, so I want to make sure my hunting load is as lethal as possible.

[lead chucker]

The SST has worked great for me on two deer last year. Do you know your muzzle velocity and what distance was the shot?

I shot one deer last year at about 100 yrds that ran about 75 yrds. I then shot one at 370 yrds that didn't run 20 yrds. Both expanded well.

[cory]

8208xbr is a great powder for accuracy, but its velocity is lacking. I tried it in my 24" Grendel some time ago. I only got 2450fps at 27grs, so I quickly switched to CFE. I get on average 2600fps with hornady factory through that barrel. I'd guess you only get 2350-2400fps MV.

That being said, you should be good out past 400 yards. I suspect this bullet was just an anomaly. Could you tell if you hit any bone?

[Adam Lilja]

I shot one this weekend at 500 yds through the heart. No visible entry, about a 1" exit hole. Ran 50 yds. Factory SST

[jluck]

My Grendel was used to take three mule deer bucks this year from 80ish yards to 298. All the 123 SST's came apart, Spit the cores and made a mess. This was with Factory Hornady ammo. I will be only hunting with mono's if I hunt the Grendel anymore.

[Double Naught Spy]

My Grendel was used to take three mule deer bucks this year from 80ish yards to 298. All the 123 SST's came apart, Spit the cores and made a mess. This was with Factory Hornady ammo. I will be only hunting with mono's if I hunt the Grendel anymore.

I hunt primarily hogs with factory SST. Coming apart seems to be the norm. I have found multiple exit wounds on some hogs and multiple entry wounds on a hog hit by fragments that overpenetrated the hog I was shooting. Usually, if I recover anything, it is pieces. The one bullet I recovered was probably half its original weight.

[Klem]

8208XBR is a single-based extruded powder. Made by Thales/ADI (Australian Defense Industries) which exclusively manufactures single-based powders. Alliant re-packages it for sales in the US.

CFE223 is a double-based ball powder. Made by General Dynamics for Hogdens.

Single-based vs. double-based powders. They have their advantages and disadvantages but you tend to get more velocity for the same volume from double-based.

[tpk]

The one SST I've recovered from a hog expanded well (.497) and the jacket stayed with the core. Jacket and core retained 86gr.

[AmishEskimoNinja]

That being said, you should be good out past 400 yards. I suspect this bullet was just an anomaly. Could you tell if you hit any bone?

No, it didn't hit bone, just tissue. The load I was using I've measured at 2425 Ft/s. I guess I could up the velocity at the cost of sacrificing some accuracy. I'm still pretty far away from max pressure. I was thinking the temperature stability of 8208 would be useful since I developed the load at 80 degrees, and hunted at 23 degrees..

[bwaites]

J

8208XBR is a single-based extruded powder. Made by Thales/ADI (Australian Defense Industries) which exclusively manufactures single-based powders. Alliant re-packages it for sales in the US.

CFE223 is a double-based ball powder. Made by General Dynamics for Hogdens.

Single-based vs. double-based powders. They have their advantages and disadvantages but you tend to get more velocity for the same volume from double-based.

Hmmm.....my 8208 says IMR on it, not Alliant. IMR is Hodgdon/IMR/Winchester. Hodgdon is in Kansas. Alliant is at Radford Arsenal, the same place as Alexander Arms.

[Klem]

J

Hmmm.....my 8208 says IMR on it, not Alliant. IMR is Hodgdon/IMR/Winchester. Hodgdon is in Kansas. Alliant is at Radford Arsenal, the same place as Alexander Arms.

Correct, it is IMR not Alliant. My bad.

ADI (now owned by Thales) sells single-based powder to both Hogdens and IMR. In Australia 8208 is Bench Mark 8208 and has only recently released it to the local market. ADI has been making it for the US market since 2010 I think.

I read they also put a dye in it to give it a darker tint over your way. Something about the US market having a history of darker powders and being comfortable with that. Is that true?
Check out the colour of the Aussie equivalent

[dmsims21]

My 8208 looks the same as the powder in the pic you showed.
AR Comp looks very similar in size and shape to 8208, but it is dark in color.

[LRRPF52]

No, it didn't hit bone, just tissue. The load I was using I've measured at 2425 Ft/s. I guess I could up the velocity at the cost of sacrificing some accuracy. I'm still pretty far away from max pressure. I was thinking the temperature stability of 8208 would be useful since I developed the load at 80 degrees, and hunted at 23 degrees..

What distance was the shot made at? How far did the deer travel before it went down? With that velocity, you should still have expansion out to 325yds, even when I drop the BC to .465, drop the temperature to 20 F. Any pics? Any bullet fragments recovered?

Of course there are more premium bullets you can use. Barnes are one of the staples for hog hunting, but they have been killed with the steel case cheap ammo as well, even with bad shot placement on a runner.

Barnes 100gr TTSX going fast is great on hogs and deer. There is also the 120gr TSX, and 120gr TTSX.

You could try the bonded bullets from Nosler or Hornady. Precision Firearms has a factory 129gr ABLR load that will open up in a big way at close range especially, as they ABLR's are meant for 1300fps expansion.

You might also try the Nosler Ballistic Tip, 120gr. They are one of the most accurate bullets for most people for some reason.

You could also go 100gr or 125gr Nosler Partition.

We went to great lengths to lay all this out with the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook, Volume II. You can see all the expansion thresholds across a wide range of impact speeds, penetration depths, expansion diameters at different speeds, retained weights, and bullet-game recommendations.

Then you have a vast set of source data in the reloading tables, to include a lot of 20" rifle data from various industry and member readings.

[biodsl]

We went to great lengths to lay all this out with the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook, Volume II. You can see all the expansion thresholds across a wide range of impact speeds, penetration depths, expansion diameters at different speeds, retained weights, and bullet-game recommendations.

Then you have a vast set of source data in the reloading tables, to include a lot of 20" rifle data from various industry and member readings.

+1 on this. I'm not a hunter or reloader (yet), but this is a great resource. I've read the book cover to cover twice and have referred to different sections on several occasions. Heck, it's practically worth the price just for Stokes' introduction. Highly recommended.

[AmishEskimoNinja]

What distance was the shot made at? How far did the deer travel before it went down? With that velocity, you should still have expansion out to 325yds, even when I drop the BC to .465, drop the temperature to 20 F. Any pics? Any bullet fragments recovered?

No pics. I was kind of thinking a picture would be nice while my hands were covered in deer blood. I would say the shot was at about 75 yards, and the deer ran about 25 yards before it dropped.

The bullet passed right through, so I don't have any fragments.