Good load for 22" CSS barrel...any suggestions

[drbs]

New to Grendel and pretty new to rifle reloading(only .223 so far). Any suggestions on a sub moa load? The Hornaday 123gr factory and home grown 123gr Amax behind CFE 31.6gr (2653ft/sec) are getting only about MOA. Targets are CFE223 at 100yds

[PredatorDown]

My best load out of my 22" JP barrel is 30gr of BL-C(2) pushing the 123 Amax at just over 2500fps. Usually MOA or better at 500 yards, with good days being 1/2moa that far

[drbs]

thank you Predator...

[VASCAR2]

My Son in Law loads 129 grain SST in Hornady brass and BLC2 powder for his Lothar-Walther 22" 6.5 CSS. I don't know the exact charge weight but I think he used CCI 450 primers.

[drbs]

thanks Vascar

[LR1955]

New to Grendel and pretty new to rifle reloading(only .223 so far). Any suggestions on a sub moa load? The Hornaday 123gr factory and home grown 123gr Amax behind CFE 31.6gr (2653ft/sec) are getting only about MOA. Targets are CFE223 at 100yds

DRBS:

What do you expect in terms of consistent accuracy and at what distance?

There is nothing universal about loads and accuracy. The load you are using can probably produce sub minute accuracy out of most rifles guys own on this forum.

Given the optic is functioning, and it is secured to the rifle so it doesn't move under recoil, I would go with the shooter and then the barrel as the most likely issues at first.

Have someone shoot it who you trust is a very good shooter.

If the performance sucks with him too, I would try a different bullet. A good stand by is the 120 Sierra Match King because it is very forgiving in terms of powders, primers, seating depth, and even barrels.

If you can't get it to group well using a 120 Match King, I would look at the barrel starting with that break on the end of it. I will say that to date I can't recall anyone who had a 22" Lothar Walther barrel complaining about it not shooting very well at the shorter ranges.

If you bought the barrel, rifle, optic or any combination of them used from someone, you probably have your answer.

LR55

[drbs]

thank you LR55....all new...home built. Please tell me why the Flash suppressor gives you concern. Thank you for pointing me to the SMK's. Tomorrow is more range time. I read one of your other posts about loading up a load and just practicing...that will be my agenda for tomorrow.

[LR1955]

thank you LR55....all new...home built. Please tell me why the Flash suppressor gives you concern. Thank you for pointing me to the SMK's. Tomorrow is more range time. I read one of your other posts about loading up a load and just practicing...that will be my agenda for tomorrow.

DRBS:

Anything a guy puts on the end of his barrel would give me concern but not until I would be convinced the optic functions and is securely mounted on the upper, and I know the performance level of the shooter. Anything a person screws on to the end of a barrel will disrupt something. Sometimes they assist in consistency and other times they do not.

And, forums like this can mislead guys into thinking that it is common for a gas operated rifle to shoot half minute groups.

If your rifle and ammo and you can hold 3/4 minute eight of ten, five shot strings (not allowing for 'fliers' of any sort), at 200 yards with 300 being ideal, you have a decent combination of things going for you. Certainly, one or maybe two of those strings can be half minute or maybe one even less but they are outliers, not the mean.

Shooting groups at 100 yards is not a real good evaluation of performance. However, it depends on what you want to do with your gear. Some guys get into it and others are happy with the performance of the cartridge but measure its performance via other means such as terminal effects on game, ability to perform better than other rifle / ammo combinations in shooting sports, etc.

You said you were new to the game so that is probably most of the reason. Most guys who are new to the game and shoot off a bench don't have a good position and normally take too long to shoot their string. A very solid position that supports you confidently and more a rapid fire cadence will probably tighten things up a bit. Five shots ought to take maybe fifteen seconds. 20 max but won't be worth a damn if your position falls apart during the string.

Practice setting up a good position then practice focusing on your shooting.

LR55

[drbs]

LR55:
thank you for the reply!!! LOTS of GREAT info for me. And....you guessed it...generated more questions in by pea brain. First off my background. Youth spent plinking with .22 rifle. At start of my 4th decade started pistol shooting. Been doing "USPSA" type shooting on and off last 20 years. Currently trying "3 gun". Last 6 years have been taking "Defensive" training classes (passed Chuck Taylor's test). But along the way I took a "precision rifle" class. Did it with a rem 700 in .223 with a 1 in 12 twist. (40 grain varmint Vmax). I got tired/frustrated with wind pushing the little bullets (and my skill level) all over the place. The Grendel interested me because of the bullets good ballistic coefficients (maybe less wind influence), semi auto (didn't like working the bolt between shots) and I could build it myself (probably not a good thing...that "a little knowledge is dangerous" thing).

When you mentioned "shooting sports" that lit up my radar BTW. That sounds like fun!!

You mentioned that 100yd is not ideal for performance testing...is not MOA...MOA? If I shoot 1 inch at 100 is that not the same as 2 inch at 200? Clue me in on your experience on that issue.
Thank you for the reality check...I must remember not to hope for one hole groups!!
This rifle was my first experience shooting from the bench. The precision Rifle class was done all prone. (currently healing from broken back from peloton/bicycle boobob)
And do you have a opinion on compensators vs flash suppressors. Or you're thinking "Nothing on the end is best"

[Fredman]

DRBS, another load to try, is 108 & 123 Lapuas with N140. I shot many 1/4-1/2 MOA groups with this load. But like LR stated, those were the best, not an average group. Some days I have a hard time keeping them inside an inch, and the next day I'm hitting thumb tacks.

[drbs]

thx Fredman

[kmon]

Like Fredman some days I shoot better than others. When doing load workup for a rifle I will either take a known load for it that shoots well or another rifle of known accuracy with me to the range so I have an idea how I am shooting that day.

What kind of load workup have you done? Just trying a load that someone else has had luck with might not work well for you rifle, accuracy node for one rifle might not be for another. Had 2 Remington 7mm-08s for a while that both shot well but best accuracy was with loads that were .7 grains of Varget apart with the same seating depth, bullet and primer.

[drbs]

thanks kmon...so far one bullet, one powder, 5 different weights. Good idea on another gun to gauge that days personal trigger finger

[LR1955]

LR55:
thank you for the reply!!! LOTS of GREAT info for me. And....you guessed it...generated more questions in by pea brain. First off my background. Youth spent plinking with .22 rifle. At start of my 4th decade started pistol shooting. Been doing "USPSA" type shooting on and off last 20 years. Currently trying "3 gun". Last 6 years have been taking "Defensive" training classes (passed Chuck Taylor's test). But along the way I took a "precision rifle" class. Did it with a rem 700 in .223 with a 1 in 12 twist. (40 grain varmint Vmax). I got tired/frustrated with wind pushing the little bullets (and my skill level) all over the place. The Grendel interested me because of the bullets good ballistic coefficients (maybe less wind influence), semi auto (didn't like working the bolt between shots) and I could build it myself (probably not a good thing...that "a little knowledge is dangerous" thing).

When you mentioned "shooting sports" that lit up my radar BTW. That sounds like fun!!

You mentioned that 100yd is not ideal for performance testing...is not MOA...MOA? If I shoot 1 inch at 100 is that not the same as 2 inch at 200? Clue me in on your experience on that issue.
Thank you for the reality check...I must remember not to hope for one hole groups!!
This rifle was my first experience shooting from the bench. The precision Rifle class was done all prone. (currently healing from broken back from peloton/bicycle boobob)
And do you have a opinion on compensators vs flash suppressors. Or you're thinking "Nothing on the end is best"

DRBS:

Crashing in a Peleton is a bad thing. How many guys ran over you before you crawled out of the way? Broken back means no prone shooting for you for a while.

Accuracy isn't linear. If you have a load that shoots consistently well at 300, trust it at 600. If you have one that shoots well at 600, it will probably shoot well at 1000 unless it goes subsonic in the process. Good groups at 100 may surprise you at 200 or 300. They indicate you are on to something but by no means ensure the same level of performance at longer distances.

LW barrels like yours are damn good to about 300 but they lose something past 300. They just won't hold as well as other barrels when you go beyond 300. I don't know why.

I have a bolt rifle that uses a comp I can screw on and off. That one will hold under 3/4 minute with the comp on. It opens up to two minutes with the comp off, with or withoug a crowned barrel cap screwed on. I can't find a load for it that works without the comp. I don't know why.

Loose flash suppressors can also cause havoc. Or flash suppressors that are not true to the barrel in alignment.

Three Gun means fast follow on shots and comps are legal so certainly, use one. NRA High Power and F Class do not allow comps but do allow flash suppressors. Flash suppressors are of no value to anything outside of flash suppression and some control of muzzle flip. You won't notice a difference with one on or off so unless you have a need for one, it will probably just get in the way. Guys who hunt using a carbine under conditions of limited visibility will probably want a flash suppressor because otherwise they will be blinded by the muzzle flash. For limited visibility I would go with a suppressor just to get rid of as much flash as possible. At night, muzzle flash can really give you fits.

Use the things that give you an advantage but accept that the more things you throw on to a firearm, bicycle, car, etc, the more likely one of them won't fit well with the other parts and cause problems.

LR55

[drbs]

LR55...again wow...thx for the reply and info...I hit the wheel of the tandem in front of me... totally my fault...no one hit me...the pavement did enough damage...but didn't break the collar bone.
New concept for me that accuracy is not linear...Had my best MOA group at 300yds today.
Sry but I have to ask...what is your opinion on best barrel or upper for Grendel?
The flash suppressor is a result of drinking the cool aide of the precision rifle class...not giving away ur position...silly but...??
I understand KISS...but sometimes forget