.224 Valkyrie? Future competitor to the 6.5 Grendel?

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  • ahillock
    Warrior
    • Jan 2016
    • 339

    .224 Valkyrie? Future competitor to the 6.5 Grendel?

    Was unveiled at Big 3 East conference last week. Based off the .30 Remington/6.8 SPC case and is necked down to .22 caliber. As a result, it has similar internal and external geometry to the .22 Nosler.



    Although Federal has not released its spec sheet yet, the .224 Valkyrie appears to have a case that is about 1.62″ long, with an 0.240″ long neck. The shoulder is almost certainly 30 degrees (as is popular at the moment), and the case taper is probably similar to .308 at about 0.35 degrees per side. Since I already had a 6.8 SPC case model laying around, this made modeling the .224 Valkyrie in SolidWorks pretty straightforward:





  • ahillock
    Warrior
    • Jan 2016
    • 339

    #2




    Well then, that sure seems definitive, doesn’t it? The .224 Valkyrie has 5.56mm Mk. 262 beat for velocity by 200 meters; the .22 Nosler it has whupped by 250 meters, and all with a bullet that’s 17% heavier. In terms of muzzle energy, it leads the pack of .22s to start, but clings bitterly to every Joule to such a degree that by a kilometer it’s even nipping at the heels of the much-touted 6.5 Grendel. Yet, where the Grendel disappoints in drop and drift, the Valkyrie pulls ahead, earning a massive lead in drop and drift over everything on the chart by the time kilobuck range rolls around. (In fact, although not included on the chart, the .224 Valkyrie approaches the 6.5 Creemoor in both respects at this range).

    So, wait, the .224 Valkyrie is an AR-15 compatible round that gives you .22 Nosler performance up close, 6.5 Grendel energy retention, and 6.5 Creedmoor drop and drift at 1,000m? Well, these are just estimates, but… Yeah, looks that way.
    Let’s start off with a question: What is the best round for the AR-15? At the Big 3 East conference this week, a new caliber was unveiled for the AR-15. Called the “.224 Valkyrie”, it is based on the .30 Remington/6.8 SPC case, necked down to .22 caliber, giving it similar internal and external geometry to … Read More …

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    • ahillock
      Warrior
      • Jan 2016
      • 339

      #3

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      • bj139
        Chieftain
        • Mar 2017
        • 1968

        #4
        Why not compare the 90 gr bullet in 6.5 Grendel and 224 Valkyrie?

        Is there any downside to making the bullets longer in order to increase weight?

        The 6.5mm diameter has that sweet spot of weight vs. diameter, at least for medium game. For heavier animals like moose and above, 30 cal or above is much sweeter.

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        • StoneHendge
          Chieftain
          • May 2016
          • 2009

          #5
          An apples to apples comparison would be nice. I push a 75 gr VLD with a 0.217 G7 out an 18" 22 Nosler at 2900.

          3000+ is also attainable with 70 gr RDFs with a .211 G7 out of an 18" 22 Nosler. I just haven't found the powder load that works yet with them since I've been too busy working with me S'more.
          Last edited by StoneHendge; 10-11-2017, 03:36 PM.
          Let's go Brandon!

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          • Smokehouse_83
            Bloodstained
            • Apr 2017
            • 29

            #6
            How much is this stuff gonna be per round though? I think once Hornady starts loading their bullets in Wolf cases and sells them for 50 cents or cheaper a round the Grendel will take off like wildfire.

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            • BluntForceTrauma
              Administrator
              • Feb 2011
              • 3897

              #7
              Cool name and correct concept. 224 Valkyrie. Fat case. Sleek bullet. I like it.

              But what's old is new again. Robert Whitley has a Grendel-based 224 AR, which he wildcatted way back in 2009. It might have even more case capacity than this new 224 Valkyrie.

              This could be a good twin for the 6.5 Grendel. Nathaniel F's charts are still somewhat hypothetical; I think real-world results might tame his enthusiasm a bit.

              Could be a 6.8 killer. With the 65G on the one side and the 224V on the other, tell me again what 6.8 does? Can't compete with 65G in heavier bullets. 6.8 camp loves the 90gr Gold Dot/Fusion, but they can't compete with 224V in 90-grainers.

              We have hardly begun to explore lighter bullets in 6.5mm that truly take advantage of the 0.740" that the Grendel case allows our bullet noses at 2.260 mag length. That nose length is about the same as Berger's 130 VLD or 140 Elite Hunter, so we can be pretty damn sleek, as well. Put that nose on a 90-100gr 6.5mm and make your comparison again. You'll still be glad you own a Grendel. And we'll still have cheap Wolf steel-case.
              :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

              :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

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              • Kilco
                Chieftain
                • Jan 2016
                • 1201

                #8
                Boring!! Just like the 22 Nosler, the 30 rem/6.8 case is too long and restricts the use of the really juicy 22 cal bullets like the 75gr AMAX/eld, 80gr SMK and all the others like that.

                What I've been OBSESSED with lately is how perfect the Grendel case works with a 6mm bullet... give that sucker a 1:8 twist and a 20" barrel.... Very sexy possibilities.

                The 7mm valkyrie however was based on 6.5x47 Lapua brass.. whole different ball game.. single stack big boy performance.
                Last edited by Kilco; 10-11-2017, 07:11 PM.

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                • BluntForceTrauma
                  Administrator
                  • Feb 2011
                  • 3897

                  #9
                  Kilco, I'm guessing that Federal shaved a bit off the 6.8 case for the 224V. Instead of the original 43mm long, I think they might have gone 41mm or so. If they can load high BC 90-grainers at mag length, could be cool.

                  I think Federal will officially announce in about two weeks.
                  :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

                  :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

                  Comment

                  • Arkhangel5
                    Warrior
                    • Apr 2016
                    • 229

                    #10
                    I am trying to see the upside to this particular combo.

                    Outside of competition and varmint shooting, what is the purpose of it?

                    I know the benefits of shooting the 90's in a 223 platform for competition, seen it done and done well, but as a very niche combo.

                    Why a fast heavy .22 caliber for hunting? Some states not allowed, so who exactly is this being catered to?

                    I dont see the appeal.

                    SY

                    Comment

                    • BluntForceTrauma
                      Administrator
                      • Feb 2011
                      • 3897

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Arkhangel5 View Post
                      Why a fast heavy .22 caliber for hunting? Some states not allowed, so who exactly is this being catered to?
                      Excellent point about hunting. Could be why the same concept based on necked down 65G brass didn't really take off. But, then again, maybe it needed backing by major ammo player?

                      I'm completely content with 65G, but we'll see how market reacts. Heck, I'm still shocked .300 Blackout took off like it did!
                      :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

                      :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

                      Comment

                      • Kilco
                        Chieftain
                        • Jan 2016
                        • 1201

                        #12
                        Oh so this thing is going to be a SAAMI approved cartridge backed my federal?! If it is, and it's shortened enough to run the high the high b.c bullets, it will be a fun target puncher to be sure... and the total demise of the Ill though out 22 Nosler.

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                        • NugginFutz
                          Chieftain
                          • Aug 2013
                          • 2622

                          #13
                          I couldn't help but notice that the source (Nathaniel F at TFB) chose a slick bullet for the Valkyrie, and all SMK's for the rest, so I decided I would try to re-run the numbers with an evened playing field.

                          I also noticed his BC for the 90 gr VLD was significantly higher than Berger's own posted G7 of 0.274, so I ran with the corrected BC.

                          Next, I chose a tried and true 123 Scenar for the Grendel. It is a solid choice for VLD comparisons.

                          Lastly, I updated the 77 grain from the SMK to Berger's Tactical/OTM, with an improved .192 G7 BC. Because the Wylde was simply the same projectile running 50 fps slower than the 22 Nosler, I omitted it entirely as being redundant.

                          I kept all the velocities as previously posted, and ran the numbers using the Applied Ballistics engine with standard atmospheric and temperature values. With the playing field now evened, the results are somewhat different.



                          22V fps.jpg22V energy.jpg22V drop.jpg22V drift.jpg

                          Even still, the Valkyrie does maintain a slight edge on drop and windage, but never gets close for retained energy at any distance.
                          Last edited by NugginFutz; 10-12-2017, 01:37 AM.
                          If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

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                          • Kilco
                            Chieftain
                            • Jan 2016
                            • 1201

                            #14
                            Thanks Nuggin!! I was thinking the same thing when I looked at bullet selection.

                            Comment

                            • sneaky one
                              Chieftain
                              • Mar 2011
                              • 3077

                              #15
                              Yes, thanks Nug., the Grr is the Best choice- overall, yet for a .224- WoW. Valkrie-It is a hot rod against to the Nosler. They both will work fine.

                              Check on what you can get as components firstly. Brass....

                              Where have I heard the Valkrie put out there as an ammo name before, hmmmm

                              A hill, look at all the differences from frontal diameters, SD's etc. The Grr is the clear winner in the end here..


                              If you separate the calibers, and run numbers - yes the Val could be king of the .224 class. This is the 6.5 G forum.
                              Last edited by sneaky one; 10-12-2017, 12:57 AM.

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