Which Primer Do We All Like?

[wraith1516]

you forgot one thing add availability to that listsometimes you can't get what you prefer and have to make do with what you can find

[lwminton]

LWM:

Everyone who likes one primer over another knows exactly why.

First, when the Grendel appeared on the scene, the only load data was from Alexander. He ran pressure tests on the loads he published. He used CCI-450's almost exclusively. When the only source for loads advises one primer, people tend to heed the advice and use that primer.

Second, CCI-450s withstand the inertial firing pin strikes so rarely if at all slam fire. That is a huge thing with AR's. I have had slam fires with AR-15's and they were because I used a primer with a thinner cup. I think they were Winchester small rifle -- but can not recall as it was close to 20 years ago.

Third, go to a High Power event and see what small rifle primers the top end shooters are using. CCI-450, Wolf Small Rifle Magnum, Rem 7 1/2 will probably be the primary choices. For guys shooting small necked cases with decent powder charges, a magnum primer is normally used. Of these, it appears the CCI-450 is the one of choice. Whether a myth or not, people who shoot ball powders tend to think they are harder to ignite uniformly so use magnum primers. Personally I think there may be some credibility for this belief.

We had a guy on the last forum who swore by BR-4's so you aren't alone. I think most guys avoid them primarily due to cost.

So, those are the primary reasons why guys use what they use. Some is due to safety issues, some due to proven value, and some to outright prejudice. However, they know exactly why they use what they use.

LR55

Thanks. I use BR4s because I started with the 6mmAR and Whitley recommended that - never shot a rifle like that before so who am I? I used his powder loads too. Since the case is the same, I figured the primer and powder should be the same. Not so for the powder.
It appears that cup strength is the key factor. I am so limited in time and skill that there is not much of a chance I could test primers realistically, but I think it was right to ask the team.

[LR1955]

Thanks. I use BR4s because I started with the 6mmAR and Whitley recommended that - never shot a rifle like that before so who am I? I used his powder loads too. Since the case is the same, I figured the primer and powder should be the same. Not so for the powder.
It appears that cup strength is the key factor. I am so limited in time and skill that there is not much of a chance I could test primers realistically, but I think it was right to ask the team.

LWM:

Sure you were right to ask. It has been asked about four times on this iteration of the Grendel forum. Same question, same answers. Klem did go a bit farther by linking to some tests.

Can't really compare the Grendel in 6.5mm to a Grendel case necked down to 6mm and shooting bullets that comparatively are much longer and heavier. Necking the Grendel down to 6 mm is a completely different cartridge. I shoot 450's in my 6 AR because I trust them. I have shot thousands of rounds of various cartridges with large and small rifle BR primers and can't say that I think the BR primers added one point or X to my scores. They did cost 30% more.

I use 450's and Wolf Small Rifle Magnum primers in the Grendel, 6 AR, 6 BR, 6.5 BR, and 6 X 47 Lapua.

LR55

[davidj]

Cci 450

[sneaky one]

wraith- you nailed this whole thread .,,,, kinda,,,,

Amazing that LR 1955 shoots that many different calibers. Who has the time ?? I need to change my lifestyle up. Coolville is out there.

[bwaites]

wraith- you nailed this whole thread .,,,, kinda,,,,

Amazing that LR 1955 shoots that many different calibers. Who has the time ?? I need to change my lifestyle up. Coolville is out there.

Ah, well, those are just the 6/6.5's he shoots!

[LR1955]

wraith- you nailed this whole thread .,,,, kinda,,,,

Amazing that LR 1955 shoots that many different calibers. Who has the time ?? I need to change my lifestyle up. Coolville is out there.

SO:

Rifles are tools. I have a selection so I can choose the right cartridge and rifle for the job. 6 AR is a great Across the Course cartridge for an AR. 6 BR is a great prone cartridge to 600. I have a 6 AC for my Tubb which is about the best Across the Course cartridge you will find but it smokes barrels horribly. 6 X 47 Lapua for long range precision. Also smokes barrels horribly. 6.5 BR is a more powerful 6.5 Grendel but otherwise is useless for anything other than off hand practice. Having rifles with interchangeable barrels is a good thing since you can buy a barrel and not the entire rifle. I also shoot 6.5 Creedmoor and 260. No difference between the two. I haven't shot a .308 for a year or so but have a couple of different barrels for bolt rifles and a M-14, and an AR-10. .308 is obsolete for competitive sports other than those that require it like Palma. Got a couple of surplus rifles. Usual thing, .303, 7.62 X 54R, 30-06, 8MM. I load for the 30-06 and blast surplus ammo through the others.

I have three Grendel uppers shoot the Grendel a couple of times a year. It is not a good choice for Across the Course, but is good for practicing and having fun. My only 5.56 is an M-4. I have a very good barrel on it and I can rely on it with my life if needed.

I have a few more cartridges I shoot once every few years and some pistols.

I certainly don't shoot them all each year. I may blast with some of the surplus rifles once a year. I shoot a .308 once a year to remind me how it really sucks. Some I haven't shot for ten plus years. This year I have been shooting more 6.5 Creedmoor than anything else.

LR55

[pds]

SO:

I certainly don't shoot them all each year. I may blast with some of the surplus rifles once a year. I shoot a .308 once a year to remind me how it really sucks. Some I haven't shot for ten plus years. This year I have been shooting more 6.5 Creedmoor than anything else.

LR55

LR, Bolt action or gas gun on your Creedmoor? Load you're shooting?

pds

[LR1955]

PDS:

Sent BC. Guys, no magic with them.

Tubb and quadlock.

For over the course I shoot a 85 grain Sierra with 37 grains of Varget or 4895 at 200 yards. Adequate accuracy with little recoil. 300 and 600, primarily 108 Lapua with 39 grains of Varget. Could go to 40 or 41 but don't. Have tried 41 grains of H-4350 with 123's and 140's. Worked fine for 600 but I don't have a lot of either and do have a lot of 108 Lapuas. Will also shoot 120 Sierras at 300 with 38 grains of Varget. Federal 215 Match or Wolf Large Rifle primers.

Will shoot some of my own 110 FB and 125 boat tail bullets one of these days. I bet the 110 grain FB shoot much better than the 85 Sierra's and the 125's as good as the Lapua's or Sierra's at 300. 600? Not sure yet.

Never shot any for group. Just for score. I will shoot a 600 reduced to 100 yard target and compare loads, then shoot at 300, and finally at 600. There is nothing unique about these loads. I believe they are standard for guys who shoot this cartridge.

I could go way higher with the quadlock but won't. Value the brass, my gear and eyes too much. Not worth the maybe extra point or X.

LR55

[lwminton]

LWM:

Sure you were right to ask. It has been asked about four times on this iteration of the Grendel forum. Same question, same answers. Klem did go a bit farther by linking to some tests.

Can't really compare the Grendel in 6.5mm to a Grendel case necked down to 6mm and shooting bullets that comparatively are much longer and heavier. Necking the Grendel down to 6 mm is a completely different cartridge. I shoot 450's in my 6 AR because I trust them. I have shot thousands of rounds of various cartridges with large and small rifle BR primers and can't say that I think the BR primers added one point or X to my scores. They did cost 30% more.

I use 450's and Wolf Small Rifle Magnum primers in the Grendel, 6 AR, 6 BR, 6.5 BR, and 6 X 47 Lapua.

LR55

The June edition of Handloader magazine has a long article on primers. Not much science in terms of comparative results but good information on cups and manufacturing methods. They write: "Some handloaders claim match primers are milder ... while others say they're hotter" Now that is helpful.
They also write that the match primers are more consistently made but are not sure if it makes a difference. Seating depth and other things matter. What do you all think of the article?

[LR1955]

The June edition of Handloader magazine has a long article on primers. Not much science in terms of comparative results but good information on cups and manufacturing methods. They write: "Some handloaders claim match primers are milder ... while others say they're hotter" Now that is helpful.
They also write that the match primers are more consistently made but are not sure if it makes a difference. Seating depth and other things matter. What do you all think of the article?

LW:

I go 100% with seating depth in terms of making sure the primer is seated and that is is just a touch below the rim. If anything, primers that are not seated deeply enough pose a danger with out of battery firings. So, I use a hand seating tool for my rifle stuff when using a single stage and run a visual after loading on a progressive. A person develops a sense of feel that the primer has seated properly when working priming systems. Even on progressives a person can feel the primer seat securely to the base of the primer pocket.

For fellows who are new to reloading, a good technique to use if you aren't positive that a primer is seated deeply enough is to put the case or cartrige it on a flat surface and see if the cartridge wobbles.

Another thing about primers that I suspect is a person runs into hang fires with rifle ball powders if the primer is not hot enough. Just something I suspect.

LR55

[sneaky one]

Well stated LR 1955-, - I just wanted you to state your games- as the Modererator on your chosen spot on the forum. Thank you Gene!

I wish I had that much time to shoot that much.

[1075 tech]

I don't have the load data yet, but browsing through this thread, I didn't see much for regular SR primers. Are there satisfactory loads using a standard primer or are the magnum primers required? I have 10K of standard SR, but local availability of 450's/7 1/2's is eh. I can get 41's but the LGS that has them wants premium prices.

[VASCAR2]

I don't have the load data yet, but browsing through this thread, I didn't see much for regular SR primers. Are there satisfactory loads using a standard primer or are the magnum primers required? I have 10K of standard SR, but local availability of 450's/7 1/2's is eh. I can get 41's but the LGS that has them wants premium prices.

I have loaded with Remington small rifle primers as that was all I could find when I started reloading again about 6 years ago. I never had any issues but I don't hot rod my reloads. The main concern is the floating firing pin on the AR-15. If you have ever removed a chambered round you'll likely notice a dimple on the primer from when the round was chambered. It has been known to occur that a round can fire upon being chambered in an AR-15. Another important reason to use safe gun handling practice especially on loading AR-15's. I have seen many a Police Officer continually reloading the same top round in their weapons. Not only can the bullet eventually become deep seated but the AR-15 has a greater likely hood the round could fire upon chambering.

The magnum primers have thicker cups as do the CCI 41 small rifle primers. There was a post on this forum listing the thickness of primer cups on several brands of primers. The large rifle primers cups were more consistently the same thickness. Not all standard small rifle primers cups are the same thickness, if I remember correctly Federal was one of the brands with thinner cups.

[VASCAR2]

I found the article on accurate shooter on the rifle primer comparison. This article has good info and probably should be added to the sticky's here in the reloading section.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/primers-and-pressure-analysis/