"They Came From Behind..."

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  • Double Naught Spy
    Chieftain
    • Sep 2013
    • 2560

    "They Came From Behind..."

    ...to quote a line from Star Wars.

    The Hessian and I had spent the day down in Bosque County, looking at a relative's property for hog damage and on the way home, he suggested he go after the hogs at my place as they had come during the two previous nights. His argument was solid. It isn't going to be raining tonight, but may be raining all week long after that. Well, it didn't rain for our hunt, but it rained before the hunt and was misting the entire night. Everywhere we walked made squishing noise in the mud. It was a mess.

    We set up to watch the feeder. Winds were SUPPOSED to be out of the SE and were for a bit, but then changed to being out of the NE. That didn't bode well for us, blowing our scent right toward the feeder. In reality, it was perfect.

    While watching raccoons at the feeder, heard a grunt from behind. Got pivoted around and ID'd hogs. That is where the video starts...



    As you could see from the video, thermal conditions sucked. The first hog shown being shot goes down DRT. The quartering away shot entered further back than intended and did not exit. The second hog shot was already shot by the Hessian through the shoulder (black dot) and is then dropped with the second shot mid-body that did not exit, though it was probably mortally wounded already.

    The smaller boar got donated to the disabled Marine and he said his freezers were full, but if we go out again next week, he might have more freezer room by then. Apparently, he is storing hog meat in his neighbor's freezers, and sharing the bounty as well. The bigger hog was donated to the Turkey Buzzard Preservation Society.
    Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 05-24-2015, 02:42 PM. Reason: spelling, grammar
    Kill a hog. Save the planet.
    My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
  • customcutter
    Warrior
    • Dec 2014
    • 452

    #2
    Some advice, just two words.....Belt fed......

    Comment

    • am4966
      Chieftain
      • Jul 2014
      • 1036

      #3
      Damn they just kept on coming! 00Spy have you thought about getting a can? I would think it'd help in a situation like that, but I don't know.
      12.5" SBR Grendel - Need Barrel
      Surge - Rugged Suppressor
      Been a fan of the Grendel from the very beginning and haven't second guessed that choice one time.

      Aim small, miss small!

      Comment

      • ricsmall
        Warrior
        • Sep 2014
        • 987

        #4
        Cool 00 spy!! Man could u imagine having a mini gun in that situation? Keep up the good work

        Richard
        Member since 2011, data lost in last hack attack

        Comment

        • Double Naught Spy
          Chieftain
          • Sep 2013
          • 2560

          #5
          Originally posted by am4966 View Post
          Damn they just kept on coming! 00Spy have you thought about getting a can? I would think it'd help in a situation like that, but I don't know.
          I am actually on the Hessian's trust and he has a can that I can use on my rifle. It did NOT improve accuracy. Did some checking and it turns out that cans are not the wonder drug claimed. While groups may tighten on some rifles, they don't on all rifles. My groups opened to 2-3 MOA from sub MOA with Hornady SST 123 factory ammo. As for the noise, I still have all my hearing and so while the can makes the noise less, my ears still get rung which means I still have to use hearing protection with supersonic ammo. I have been with folks who shot using cans and seen how they work on sounders. All in all, I am not impressed. SOMETIMES, and I stress that, the hogs do not seem to run as far or fast. Then again, SOMETIMES they don't when you use unsuppressed. They can be beneficial and do make less noise, but I can't tell that the improvement is amazing and it certainly would not be with my rifle because of accuracy. Maybe with another rifle it would be another story. Here is a previous vid with another scope on the same rifle where I got a lot of time with a sounder of hogs. Had I not followed up on each hog until it was down, no doubt I would have had more.

          Think about it. Most cans, if they do what is claimed, lower noise levels by 20-30 db. That is really significant with subsonic ammo. With supersonic ammo, you have the supersonic CRACK to deal with that the can does nothing to suppress. With most rifles having 160-170 db at the muzzle and hearing damage at 135 db, the report of the rifle is still going to be at hearing damage levels. The Hessian noted to me that you don't need hearing protection with a can. This is a common thing I hear and read from can owners. After all, his ears don't get rung by the report when he uses the can. Of course, he has already lost a bunch of his hearing and has tinnitus.

          The other thing a can won't do a thing for is the sound of the THWACK on the hog hit. According to can owners, that is often what the hogs apparently run from as the sound is quite loud to the hogs, especially when the shooter is at distance. You can see this result with long range hunters who shoot into a group of any animal and the animals start running before the sound of the report from the rifle could even make it to the group.

          If accuracy is not affected negatively, a can would NOT be detrimental the actual hunting and certainly may be helpful, but benefits to hunting are not a given and it does increase the OAL of the rifle considerably and add a goodly amount of weight. I like a hefty rifle, but a lot of folks don't.
          Kill a hog. Save the planet.
          My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

          Comment

          • Klem
            Chieftain
            • Aug 2013
            • 3507

            #6
            Originally posted by am4966 View Post
            Damn they just kept on coming! 00Spy have you thought about getting a can? I would think it'd help in a situation like that, but I don't know.
            I agree with 007, a can will do little in his situation.

            Suppressors in civilian hands cost money, make the rifle longer, heavier and his spent brass and receiver filthy. It will likely shift the point of aim meaning he cannot easily choose to have it on or off without re-zeroing. After all the paperwork hassle and cost he will almost be obligated to leave it permanently on. Mirage is also an issue using a suppressor with a scope. Burning 25+ grains of powder will heat the can up after only two or three semi-auto shots making practise with it problematic.

            Finally, as 00' rightly says, it only mitigates the sound at the firing point. The supersonic bullet still breaks the speed of sound as it travels downrange. Suppressors have more utility in the military than civilian hunting (unless you are poaching!).

            As for how much sound does it mitigate. It will sound at the firing point like a .22magnum - so ear protection is encouraged. You might not hear it at 3km's but at 100yds the hogs will need ear protection also.

            Comment

            • am4966
              Chieftain
              • Jul 2014
              • 1036

              #7
              I forgot about the report, the newer cans are getting lighter, poi and quieter for the shooter. I wouldn't use a can either if I was getting 2-3 MOA and silencers are perfect for hunting. If you don't carry hearing protection in the woods. Than dropping a shot down to hearing safe levels or just above. Your still gonna hear the report, knowing someone shot. So no poaching, will be done by that shooter. I'm gonna get one for the sbr I'm building at some point. I'll probably leave it on, until I'm able to hunt again. Since no cans for that here in Michigan.
              12.5" SBR Grendel - Need Barrel
              Surge - Rugged Suppressor
              Been a fan of the Grendel from the very beginning and haven't second guessed that choice one time.

              Aim small, miss small!

              Comment

              • Double Naught Spy
                Chieftain
                • Sep 2013
                • 2560

                #8
                Whether or not a given weapon or weapon component is "better" suited for the military is completely irrelevant. How they operate has nothing to do with how we hunt. If a given weapon or weapon component is beneficial to a given hunter and is legal is all that matters. We don't all hunt the same way, which is fine.

                The poaching claim is one that has been used for years and is a straw man argument here in the US. Realizing this and realizing the health benefit to hunters is why many states in the US have legalized suppressors for hunting.
                Kill a hog. Save the planet.
                My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

                Comment

                • Klem
                  Chieftain
                  • Aug 2013
                  • 3507

                  #9
                  I agree, hunting animals is different to hunting humans but some aspects and skills are generic and so looking at the military use of firearms is not 'completely irrelevant'. Bedside's which the military commission and test new innovations related to firearms and ammunition which is again very relevant.

                  My point related to using suppressors for hunting is, using suppressors in the US is not the amazing benefit it promises for the cost and paperwork, especially if you are looking to the military as an exemplar. While it does lessen the sound at the firing point, act as a recoil suppressor and smooth the recoil impulse it comes with some downsides (some of which we have both already listed). The military benefits of disguising the firing point, permitting verbal comms in a team environment and making obvious the relative location of friendlies and enemy by small arms reports is of almost no use to hunters.

                  But, you have to admit the cool factor to those who have never used them but want one. I agree, each to their own and knock yourself out with suppressors but I am just saying, be careful what you wish for.

                  No arguing the health and sound pollution benefits of the use of suppressors, Something that other developed countries are also comfortable with. New Zealand for example has no restrictions or paperwork associated with them. Australia is the opposite, banning civilian use beyond disciplined bodies (e.g park rangers and government pest controllers). Ironically the Coalition for Gun Control in Australia have derided the suggested use of suppressors in hunting using the argument that other people need to hear that a hunter is in the area for safety reasons. One interpretation of that position is that the anti-gun lobby is simply against any firearm related change that does anything other than confound lawful use.

                  Comment

                  • Double Naught Spy
                    Chieftain
                    • Sep 2013
                    • 2560

                    #10
                    You seem hung up on making comparisons to the military and whether or not something is better for the military than hunting and there is just no reason for it. It doesn't matter what the military folks are or are not doing. If the product is available and people want to use it for hunting and find it beneficial for their situation is all that matters.

                    This isn't a military issue. We are talking about hunting game, pure and simple.
                    Kill a hog. Save the planet.
                    My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

                    Comment

                    • Klem
                      Chieftain
                      • Aug 2013
                      • 3507

                      #11
                      You seem hung-up on the military when talking about the civilian use of a military platform...(either that or me).

                      When another poster suggested using a suppressor to facilitate more hits in a field of 24 hogs you suggested you did not think it would solve things. I agreed with you.

                      You then said two things; firstly, posters can use suppressors if they want to. Again, I agreed with you. Secondly, that the military use of suppressors has nothing to do with civilian hunting and that the military per se is unrelated to civilian hunting. Unfortunately I am disagreeing with you on that one. There are some aspects that are generic and there are some that are different. I am simply noting the similarities and differences from my own experience.

                      A fair few members here are current or ex military. That is where their experience with this military AR15 platform comes from. The use of an AR15 to stalk around at night, using night vision scopes and suppressors to kill warm flesh that does not want to be killed is not even a little bit related to the same use in the military....Surely?

                      Comment

                      • Kikn
                        Warrior
                        • Nov 2011
                        • 689

                        #12
                        I can definitely attest to a suppressor really not making a difference in getting follow up shots. After some other experiences can say about placement and time of expiration of the animal can increase follow up shots.

                        I've had 2 experiences with my friend Scott that shot 5 and 6 hogs at the same spot. He shot all in the head and they were DRT. The hogs all ran away but rather quickly came back and ate around their buddy.

                        I've also shot hog with the bow that was separated from the sounder about 20 or so. I picked him out and shot him but he didn't squeal and only one hog was disturbed. The rear stayed and the other came back as well even though the other hog had died close by. I also got another hog that was shot close to the others and when he ran out and clanged the fence the rest ran away as fast as they could.

                        Comment

                        • am4966
                          Chieftain
                          • Jul 2014
                          • 1036

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Kikn View Post
                          I can definitely attest to a suppressor really not making a difference in getting follow up shots. After some other experiences can say about placement and time of expiration of the animal can increase follow up shots.

                          I've had 2 experiences with my friend Scott that shot 5 and 6 hogs at the same spot. He shot all in the head and they were DRT. The hogs all ran away but rather quickly came back and ate around their buddy.

                          I've also shot hog with the bow that was separated from the sounder about 20 or so. I picked him out and shot him but he didn't squeal and only one hog was disturbed. The rear stayed and the other came back as well even though the other hog had died close by. I also got another hog that was shot close to the others and when he ran out and clanged the fence the rest ran away as fast as they could.
                          Right I agree suppressor won't help with the game not moving. I don't know why I said it, lol. Since I know there is noise down range/field of a shot.
                          12.5" SBR Grendel - Need Barrel
                          Surge - Rugged Suppressor
                          Been a fan of the Grendel from the very beginning and haven't second guessed that choice one time.

                          Aim small, miss small!

                          Comment

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