My new direction for a match rifle due to divorce

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  • gunn317
    Unwashed
    • Jul 2015
    • 1

    My new direction for a match rifle due to divorce

    Hello all,

    I have some questions as I am getting a handle on the Grendel quickly I hope. As the title states I am going through a divorce and the B&^% decided that she needed half of my Premier 5-25 and half of my 4,000 match rifle! It was harder to watch the damn scope leave than the wife haha.

    So my plan is to keep shooting PRS/Tactical matches at a reduced cost with an existing match built AR 15 lower and swap the barrel on the upper to Grendel. I have some questions about the round

    1. Everyone tells me the ballistics are the exact same as a 308. True or False

    2. Can you achieve better ballistics by pushing a lighter bullet faster at magazine length?

    3. Any recommendations for loads with a 1-9 twist Black Hole Weaponary barrel?

    4. Is this a viable option in regards to trying to stay cheap and still some what competitive?

    5. Reviews state that the 123 sst and 123 amax shoot the exact same. True or False.

    6. Really looking at the berger 130 AR hybrid but would like a lighter bullet to increase velocity if possible.

    Thanks for you help!
  • LR1955
    Super Moderator
    • Mar 2011
    • 3355

    #2
    Originally posted by gunn317 View Post
    Hello all,

    I have some questions as I am getting a handle on the Grendel quickly I hope. As the title states I am going through a divorce and the B&^% decided that she needed half of my Premier 5-25 and half of my 4,000 match rifle! It was harder to watch the damn scope leave than the wife haha.

    So my plan is to keep shooting PRS/Tactical matches at a reduced cost with an existing match built AR 15 lower and swap the barrel on the upper to Grendel. I have some questions about the round

    1. Everyone tells me the ballistics are the exact same as a 308. True or False

    2. Can you achieve better ballistics by pushing a lighter bullet faster at magazine length?

    3. Any recommendations for loads with a 1-9 twist Black Hole Weaponary barrel?

    4. Is this a viable option in regards to trying to stay cheap and still some what competitive?

    5. Reviews state that the 123 sst and 123 amax shoot the exact same. True or False.

    6. Really looking at the berger 130 AR hybrid but would like a lighter bullet to increase velocity if possible.

    Thanks for you help!
    You will not be competitive with a Grendel match rifle in NRA High Power. You will not get any bullet going fast enough to match cartridges like the 6 XC, various 6mm gas gun cartridges, or even the various 6.5 cartridges like the Creedmoor. The disadvantage is pretty distinct at 600 yards.

    If you want a Match Rifle for High Power using a AR-15 frame, look at the 6mm AR or 6 Turbo. Both are Grendel cases necked down to 6mm. Use a 105 Berger or 107 Sierra and you will be competitive.

    However, if you want a decent hunting cartridge for an AR-15 frame, a 6.5 Grendel will probably be a better choice than one of the 6mm Grendel cartridge hybrids.

    If you want to loose by fewer points in a High Power match, I think you would be better off finding a very good shooting load with the 108 Lapua or one of the 105 - 107 grain 6.5 bullets shot as fast as safely possible. I bet you would score higher than the 120 plus weight bullets out of a Grendel case.

    LR55

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    • bwaites
      Moderator
      • Mar 2011
      • 4445

      #3
      Originally posted by gunn317 View Post
      Hello all,

      I have some questions as I am getting a handle on the Grendel quickly I hope. As the title states I am going through a divorce and the B&^% decided that she needed half of my Premier 5-25 and half of my 4,000 match rifle! It was harder to watch the damn scope leave than the wife haha.

      So my plan is to keep shooting PRS/Tactical matches at a reduced cost with an existing match built AR 15 lower and swap the barrel on the upper to Grendel. I have some questions about the round

      1. Everyone tells me the ballistics are the exact same as a 308. True or False

      False, but depending on which load and bullet combination you use, it can be slightly better or slightly worse.

      2. Can you achieve better ballistics by pushing a lighter bullet faster at magazine length?

      I've done both, and my best scores at over 500 yards have been with the 123 AMAX. My rifle shoots the 107 Sierra into sub 1/4 MOA groups, but past 500 yards the wind simply pushes it too much.

      3. Any recommendations for loads with a 1-9 twist Black Hole Weaponary barrel?

      Shooting a 1-9, I would try to make the 107's work, but recognize the wind may get you. My BHW barrel was 1-8 custom ordered, and it shot OK with the right 123 load, but not as well as my cut barrels did.

      4. Is this a viable option in regards to trying to stay cheap and still some what competitive?

      Define "somewhat competitive". In local matches, you'll probably do fine. It won't be remotely competitive in the National level matches where really good shooters shoot more rifle.

      5. Reviews state that the 123 sst and 123 amax shoot the exact same. True or False.

      Mostly true, but every barrel is different.

      6. Really looking at the berger 130 AR hybrid but would like a lighter bullet to increase velocity if possible.

      I'm experimenting with the Berger, and I'm getting 2550+ FPS out of my 28". Those ballistics look awful good!

      Thanks for you help!
      High power, because it is scored, is a bit different than PRS, which simply requires that you hit a steel target.

      I've been to a PRS style match, shooting in crazy wind, and shooting the Grendel. Circumstances weren't exactly optimal or even normal, I had no chance to zero the rifle after putting a new scope on it, but on the third string, once I had finally gotten the zero worked out, I was competitive. scoring 4.5 out of 5. Several of the guys who beat me on the stage had the advantage of having seen me shoot and having a chance to recognize that one of the targets was actually shielded from the wind and they made a first round hit on it when it took me two. Most of the rifles in competitive hands were .260, 6mm variants, .308 etc. There were a few 6.5 Creedmoors. Out to 700 yards, and once I had the rifle finally zeroed, I felt competitive. Do I think that it is the answer in PRS? No, but you can have fun with it.
      Last edited by bwaites; 08-03-2015, 01:04 AM.

      Comment

      • rwh
        Warrior
        • Jun 2014
        • 188

        #4
        If you want to know if a grendel match rifle can compete in high power all you have to do is check out the results from Camp Perry at http://www.nrahq.org/compete/natpdf/cp400-15.pdf. The fifth and sixth scores overall were shot with a service rifle. You need to define what you mean by compete. If you are a semi-professional top ranked shooter whose reputation depends on how well you shoot you will probably want to go with a tube gun from Gary Eliseo chambered in something like 6mm CM, 6 XC, or 6 dasher. If you are shooting at the expert level and working on making master a match rifle chambered in grendel will get the job done. You might drop an extra point here and there with a missed wind call but on a calm day the grendel doesn't give up anything to those other cartridges in accuracy. It may even have an edge.

        Comment

        • LR1955
          Super Moderator
          • Mar 2011
          • 3355

          #5
          Originally posted by rwh View Post
          If you want to know if a grendel match rifle can compete in high power all you have to do is check out the results from Camp Perry at http://www.nrahq.org/compete/natpdf/cp400-15.pdf. The fifth and sixth scores overall were shot with a service rifle. You need to define what you mean by compete. If you are a semi-professional top ranked shooter whose reputation depends on how well you shoot you will probably want to go with a tube gun from Gary Eliseo chambered in something like 6mm CM, 6 XC, or 6 dasher. If you are shooting at the expert level and working on making master a match rifle chambered in grendel will get the job done. You might drop an extra point here and there with a missed wind call but on a calm day the grendel doesn't give up anything to those other cartridges in accuracy. It may even have an edge.
          RWH:

          You need points to progress in NRA Rankings. You lose points with a Grendel if there are winds. So, you have a harder time progressing in the rankings. It is more than one or two points, too. How frustrating it would be for a guy to be firing his last 80 shots for record to make Master or High Master and he doesn't make it by a point or two because he decided to shoot a anemic cartridge instead of one that gives him a edge in flaky winds.

          I shoot the Grendel in High Power periodically and I am a High Master. My wind doping is pretty good, too. The points I drop at 600 yards are pretty significant if the winds are shifting quickly, like they do where I shoot.

          It is just as good as anything else at 200 and 300. Unless you have pretty strong winds at 300. Shooting it at 600 is about the same as shooting the obsolete 168 grain .308 loads. If you see a hint of wind blowing, put on a minute.

          So far I don't see it competitive in High Power. Fun to shoot maybe but not competitive, yet. Given a big breakthrough in powder that can give another 200 fps without pressures, it will be just fine.

          LR55

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