CFE 223 powder charge

[NugginFutz]

Thanks for the information PDS! I am just now getting into Grendel so I am learning a lot.

FYI I resize 7.62x39 to grendel, the cases use large rifle primers. I have yet to pierce/blow a large rifle primer with the same load that will blow a cci 400. Small rifle magnum primers are hard to come by in my neck of the woods, so I am thinking about buying lapua 7.62x39 brass and resizing/fire forming it just for the large rifle primers.

While the CCI450 is probably the most commonly used primer for 6.5 Grendel, there are many good loads worked up with non-magnum primers. I've got some super accurate results with 85 grain BTHP Sierra pills using the Remington 7 1/2 primer. I've had no difficulty locating Rem 7 1/2's for quite some time, now.

[LRRPF52]

What would that calculation be for a 100-105 gr bullet?

Same. In the 6.5 Grendel, I don't recommend using anything really over .3gr increments. There is a noticeable velocity increase with .3gr increments.

.5gr increments can really jump past the max pressure in different chambers, especially with faster powders like 8208XBR.

[Joseph5]

I have shot several hundred reloads with 123gr SST over 32.0 grs of CFE223. I followed the load development ideas presented here by LRRPF52 using a chrono to look for a departure from the norm with the velocity increase trend. I also measured case head diameters to make sure they were not stretching excessively. My OAL is 2.250. I also have an adjustable gas block and a Tubbs flat wire spring. My gas block is adjusted for my reloads and so every once in a while the bolt won't lock back shooting Hornady Factory ammo. With 100gr AMAX and 95gr VMAX I am running 34gr of CFE223 with an OAL of 2.220 with good results. I intend to drop both of these charges .10 grains when I start using a auto powder charger and not weighing out each one individually. When I started my workup I began at 29.8 grains and went up to 32.3 to get a velocity trend with the 123's.

[VASCAR2]

The large rifle primer cups are the same thickness as CCI 450 primers. Privi Partizan 6.5 Grendel brass use large rifle primers and while not the quality of Lapua brass it is a lot less hassle than fire forming 7.62 X 39. I don't hot rod my reloads but I have at least 3 loadings on my Wolf MPT brass.

I have found I can buy factory ammo and save the brass cheaper than I can buy virgin brass and load for my 6.5 Grendel. The Wolf/PPU MPT is not guite as accurate as Hornady A-Max in my 16" 6.5 Grendel. I still get enough accuracy to justify the price of the cheaper Wolf or PPU ammo. I have put back several boxes of Hornady and Wolf/PPU ammo and I'll shoot it as my supply of brass starts to run low.

[lwminton]

Same. In the 6.5 Grendel, I don't recommend using anything really over .3gr increments. There is a noticeable velocity increase with .3gr increments.

.5gr increments can really jump past the max pressure in different chambers, especially with faster powders like 8208XBR.

Thanks, but I was asking about the effect of bullet size on case capacity that you described. I could think of no way to get the numbers you did. The reason I asked is that I tried CFE today in a 6MMAR with 108 gr Sierra's. I was hoping your case capacity number would give me a clue where to stop.

[LRRPF52]

Thanks, but I was asking about the effect of bullet size on case capacity that you described. I could think of no way to get the numbers you did. The reason I asked is that I tried CFE today in a 6MMAR with 108 gr Sierra's. I was hoping your case capacity number would give me a clue where to stop.

I look at H2O capacity, then look at available load data for the powder and pill. Since Grendel loads are anywhere from 27.0-34.0gr no matter what bullet we use, 1% is going to round to .3gr increments no matter what.

Start another thread on the 6mm AR, as that will be interesting. I know a few folks with that cartridge, as it makes an excellent coyote slayer or target gun in the AR15 with the flat trajectory and no felt recoil.

[JASmith]

On the subject of case capacity, bullet size, and effective case capacity, the bullet displaces a fair bit of case volume. For example, the 120 TTSX and the 120 GMX will both have less effective cas capacity that the 123 SST.

That difference is not an issue when faster owders are used. Whien a slower powder like CFE 223 is used, the best velocities are obtained when the powder is significantly compressed. Bumping up agamist the case fill limit means that one can stuff more powder behind the 123 gr SST than behind either of the all-copper bullets.

One can use QuickLoad to calculat case fill for various powder, bullet, and COAL choices.

[Fredman]

Ok, I tried CFE 223 in my 20" Shilen barrel on a 80degree day. 123 Lapua Senar.

29.0. 2347fps
30.0. 2434
30.3. 2430
30.6. 2442
30.9. 2513
Seemed like a big jump from 30.6 to 30.9. Any thoughts?

[Buck2732]

It all looks squiffy to me loss of speed then a gain in speed???

I would have expected it to look more like this;

Load testing for my CZ527
Bolt action loads please do not use in your semi/fully automatic wpn.

Hello the hoard some results from last Sat on the range.

All loads are in Hornady brass, CCI450 primers, CFE powder and 123g SST.
All readings taken 15 foot from my muzzle. All strings are ten rnds
Weather 20deg C, 79 Ft above sea level. 979mb

The rife CZ527, 22 inch tube, with my moderator and vortex scope.

The following all had a COL of 2.255

30.9 Average fps 2586.9
31.2 Average fps 2612.3
31.5 Average fps 2628.3
31.8 Average fps 2664.5
32.1 average fps 2700.4

The following all had a COL of 2.285

30.9 Average fps 2578.5
31.2 Average fps 2634.7
31.5 Average fps 2641.5
31.8 Average fps 2675.7
32.1 Average fps 2684.2

I also shot a control of ten rnds factory load before the above which gave an average fps 2532.4.

Bolt action loads please do not use in your semi/fully automatic wpn.

[Variable]

Ok, I tried CFE 223 in my 20" Shilen barrel on a 80degree day. 123 Lapua Senar.

29.0. 2347fps
30.0. 2434
30.3. 2430
30.6. 2442
30.9. 2513
Seemed like a big jump from 30.6 to 30.9. Any thoughts?

How many rounds per charge weight? If they were singles (or very few), it'd be too easy for the real average to get lost in the noise.

[Fredman]

Yes. They were singles. I loaded six at each weight, shot one for velocity, the rest for groups. I will get an average later, just thinking with that velocity spike I might not want to go any hotter.

[VASCAR2]

Your 30.9 load velocity looks high for the change in powder weight. My 20" Shilen with CCI 450 primers, 31.0 grain CFE 223 powder and 123 grain Nosler Custom Competition gave me an average of 2450 FPS on an 85 degree day at 350' ASL. The 2450 FPS seems to match my dope when shooting to distance.

[biodsl]

Your 30.9 load velocity looks high for the change in powder weight. My 20" Shilen with CCI 450 primers, 31.0 grain CFE 223 powder and 123 grain Nosler Custom Competition gave me an average of 2450 FPS on an 85 degree day at 350' ASL. The 2450 FPS seems to match my dope when shooting to distance.

Pretty much spot on to my load. My 20" Lilja is producing a 2468 fps average for 31.2 grains with 123 grain A-Max, CCI 450 primers. Chrono'ed at 400 feet in 80 degree heat.

[Jakal]

My 20 inch Lija is running 2535 fps with 123gr SST, CCI450 and 31.6 grains of CFE.

MY Bartlein barrel doesn't do so well with CFE, but it likes TAC & AR-Comp.