New Armasight 'Predator' Thermal Sight - 1st Field Tests

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  • Double Naught Spy
    Chieftain
    • Sep 2013
    • 2560

    New Armasight 'Predator' Thermal Sight - 1st Field Tests

    Hopefully, nobody will lambast me too harshly for not mounting this new scope on a Grendel. My current Grendel is occupied right now, but I have a new one on the way and will be using it with the next scope I review. In the mean time, think of the rifle and simply performing a nice recoil test on the scope.

    People here have mentioned the expense of thermal scopes and thermal scope prices are coming down and there are now new models out that are entry-level scopes. "Entry-level" is quite relative. Maybe 4 years ago, this would have been a higher end scope selling for 2-3 times as much money and people were killing hogs and varmints with such scopes just fine.

    Long story short, I got asked to be a pro staffer for Third Coast Thermal to review some of the products they sell. The first scope is the Armasight Predator. It is a 1.6x thermal scope and all in all, it is a nifty little scope, costing the same amount as my FLIR PS32 spotting scope, but the Predator does more, better, and is a weapon sight.

    I was hoping the first video would be a successful hunt, but the hog gods are not smiling on me. So what I do have is a video showing various critters at various distances under various conditions.

    What do I think it is capable of? Good question. I don't think 200+ yards for a hog shot would be unreasonable in open terrain. For coyote, maybe out to 150. Take a look and see what you think. I should be back out this weekend to give it another try...

    Video
    Kill a hog. Save the planet.
    My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
  • Drift
    Warrior
    • Nov 2014
    • 509

    #2
    Cool! I always knew there were some lamas around, they must hide during the day
    Then there is those thermal thermal tracks that the ducks leave in the water; those are truly awesome sir.

    Comment

    • wraith1516
      Warrior
      • Dec 2014
      • 316

      #3
      What is the price on this unit I watched the video the resolution at higher magnification seems super grainy to the point I couldnt tell it was a coon in the tree and the doe and fawn looked like 2bears at one point. Am I expecting to much of this unit sorry not trying to be critical or an arse hole just was honestly curious thanks.

      Comment

      • am4966
        Chieftain
        • Jul 2014
        • 1036

        #4
        It's in the 3500.00 range I'm guessing. If anyone wanted this scope I'm almost 100% sure I can get it. I'll say Itll be lower price than you could find any where. If I knew it was OK to use this in for yotes in Michgan. I might just have to get one.
        12.5" SBR Grendel - Need Barrel
        Surge - Rugged Suppressor
        Been a fan of the Grendel from the very beginning and haven't second guessed that choice one time.

        Aim small, miss small!

        Comment

        • Double Naught Spy
          Chieftain
          • Sep 2013
          • 2560

          #5
          You can get them for $2995 through Third Coast Thermal and a couple of other places I have seen them listed.

          As for the graininess, that is the nature of the resolution of the unit, lens size, magnification, zoom, and thermal. Spend another grand and you can get a unit with a bigger lens and more native magnification. Spend a couple grand more and you can get on with increased resolution, a bigger lens, and more magnification.

          Right now, all consumer-end thermal has digital, not optical zoom. I don't know that they will ever have optical zoom. As such, when you zoom a digital image digitally, you get a bigger image, but not actually better resolution. Many brands like Armasight do this in doubled steps. While the Predator is listed as a 2x scope, it is actually a 1.6x scope, so the steps would be 1.6x, then 3.2x, and then 6.4x. With each doubling of magnification, there is a quartering of the resolution. So 1.6x, 336x256 becomes 3.2x, 168x128 and then becomes 6.4x, 84x64 resolution. The result is pixelation (blocky image) when zoomed fully. With a 640x512 resolution scope, you get another step in doubling before reach the really blocky stage of 80x64.

          As for expecting more from the scope, it performs better than the FLIR PS32 320x240 spotting scope that runs about $3000 or the Eotech/L3 X320 320x240 spotting scope that runs about $3200-3500. So the price point in regard to capability for the $ is really pretty good.
          Kill a hog. Save the planet.
          My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

          Comment

          • customcutter
            Warrior
            • Dec 2014
            • 452

            #6
            Yes, it's a matter of price point, and what your needs are. I decided to get into night vision and bought an inexpensive ATN X-sight. At first, I was pleasantly surprised (using it around the house in the yard), as soon as I got into the real world with it, I saw the severe limitations of that particular scope. I started doing about 3 months of research, asking a lot of questions, finding places to hunt, and finally decided to jump into the thermal world. In my case if I so desire I can hunt 365 days a year for hogs and coyotes, instead of 3 months a year for legal game. It gets me out of the house, keeps me active instead of wasting away in front of the TV. I almost doubled my original budget, but decided in my case it was buy once cry once, I wouldn't need to upgrade later if I bought a very good unit to start with. I've kinda been holding off to do a review of it until I had a video of a kill shot. Hopefully that will be soon.

            I originally was looking at units in the $3500-4000 range, there were none at this price point. There is a world of difference between IR, night vision GenI, II, &III, & thermal. The best I can describe thermal is like all the critters have a light strapped on them, all you have to do is stalk close enough for a positive ID. That is where the quality of the thermal comes in, higher magnification, better cores, larger objective lenses. Hope this helps.

            PS I am not a ProStaffer or affilliated with anyone selling or manufacturing thermal scopes.
            Last edited by customcutter; 08-29-2015, 05:01 PM.

            Comment

            • Double Naught Spy
              Chieftain
              • Sep 2013
              • 2560

              #7
              Okay, sorry I am not using a Grendel. My next scope to be tested will be going on a new AA 16" incursion upper. However, for now, the Predator is on a bolt gun that had an open slot.

              am4966 said he was expecting more. Here is some real field application with some real field problems. In the first example, I had to stalk to a position to get a good view on the hog. I opted to stay low so as to not scare him away as it was broad daylight. Unfortunately, this put me down in the weeds which were still hot from the sun's heat all day long. This distorted the view quite a bit, but I was still able to pick out the landmarks and make the shot.

              The second hog taken was from an elevated stand and no obstructions between me and the target. The hog was actually smaller and further, but a much easier shot.

              Kill a hog. Save the planet.
              My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

              Comment

              • customcutter
                Warrior
                • Dec 2014
                • 452

                #8
                Excellent video, as you said even at 140 yds and 2x magnificaiton there was still very good picture quality to make the positive identification and shot with.

                As an owner of the same thermal that 00spy uses on his Grendel I can tell you that the video quality on youtube is about 70% of what you see in the ocular lens on the scope. So what you would see on this scope would also be better.

                Comment

                • wraith1516
                  Warrior
                  • Dec 2014
                  • 316

                  #9
                  Thankyou for explaining. Next question; why are the strap on the end of the day scope nv units so expensive as they dont have to have any of the magnification parts or soft ware seems to my way of thinking that if it is less complicated to build it should be less expensive

                  Comment

                  • Double Naught Spy
                    Chieftain
                    • Sep 2013
                    • 2560

                    #10
                    Are you talking NV or Thermal? Thermal scopes most definitely also have software as many will do double or triple duty as spotters, stand alone scopes, and as clip-ons.

                    The cost of thermal scopes is heavily influenced by the size of the lens, not the magnification. Germanium and its comparable substitutes are very expensive rare earth minerals. Depending on the model of scope, I am told, upwards of half the cost of the scope is in the lens alone.
                    Kill a hog. Save the planet.
                    My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

                    Comment

                    • wraith1516
                      Warrior
                      • Dec 2014
                      • 316

                      #11
                      Ok but with a clipon unit shouldnt it be less expensive as you would use your day scope to adjust magnification what im getting at is I cant afford both a good day and night scope what are my best options (wifes medical bills are killing me financially)

                      Comment

                      • Klem
                        Chieftain
                        • Aug 2013
                        • 3506

                        #12
                        Originally posted by wraith1516 View Post
                        Thankyou for explaining. Next question; why are the strap on the end of the day scope nv units so expensive as they dont have to have any of the magnification parts or soft ware seems to my way of thinking that if it is less complicated to build it should be less expensive
                        Nor do they have inbuilt aiming reticles.

                        The extreme price of a forward mounted NVD like the PVS22 is that the bore and lenses are bigger allowing for the parallax error that occurs between the scopes axis and the NVD axis. If you mount the smaller/cheaper PVS14 in front of a day scope the scope's daytime zero is will be out by quite a lot at night.

                        If you mount a PVS14 behind the scope the scopes reticle is correct both day and night. The problem then is eye relief unless using a red-dot 0-magnification sight (with infinite eye relief you can push the compact red dot as forward as you like, leaving space behind it for a NVD).

                        Also, a NVD in front of the scope means that your day scope will only be able to magnify the fixed pixel resolution of the NVD screen. A NVD mounted behind the scope means any magnification of the scope is optical, not digital.

                        Thermal scopes magnify digitally. NVD's behind a variable day scope magnify optically, although bear in mind whatever comes through the scope will be seen on a fixed resolution TV screen. NVD's in front of variable scopes magnify pixels (so technically it is digital magnification).

                        You can mount a 'cheaper' PVS14 image intensifier in front of your day scope but you need an interface device that aligns the scope/PVS14 axis. Black Optex sells them and you can see how it all fits together in the link. Hold your breath until you see the price tag at the bottom...
                        Shop now for premium quality optical systems and tactical equipment for military, law enforcement, shooting and hunting enthusiast around the world. BROWE INC produces and distributes optical and tactical solutions for defense, industrial, and commercial applications. These systems include industry-leading combat and tactical riflescopes, red dot sights, iron sights, tactical accessories, and equipment.


                        This is why 00SPY's thermal option is not so expensive after all. With the added benefit that everything hot stands out. AND, you can record it for maximum enjoyment on the forum (always appreciated!).
                        Last edited by Klem; 08-31-2015, 09:44 AM.

                        Comment

                        • Double Naught Spy
                          Chieftain
                          • Sep 2013
                          • 2560

                          #13
                          Ok but with a clipon unit shouldnt it be less expensive...
                          AGAIN, the cost of thermal units are NOT in the issue of magnification, but lens sizes. You are talking about clip-ons, but the Predator isn't a clip-on.

                          Whether or not something 'shouldn't' cost X amount really isn't relevant here, but we could discuss the who issue of economies of scale in manufacturing, supply versus demand, etc. We could get into the fact that a clip-on saves you from having to buy a night rifle to go with your day rifle (for NV anyway), but none of this is going to change the price points of the current market.
                          Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 08-31-2015, 11:07 AM.
                          Kill a hog. Save the planet.
                          My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

                          Comment

                          • wraith1516
                            Warrior
                            • Dec 2014
                            • 316

                            #14
                            That is a better and cheaper option pared with a $1000ish day scope thankyou

                            Comment

                            • Drift
                              Warrior
                              • Nov 2014
                              • 509

                              #15
                              Clip ons (or just about any other day-night combination pair), are mounted out in front of your regular day scope. That throws off the balance of the your weapon. Clip ons probably make whatever you are using for a day scope twice as heavy and twice as long when mounted. A dedicated thermal scope with quick detach plus a quick detach day scope sounds better to me.

                              Comment

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