123 Amax accuracy issues

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  • molar
    Bloodstained
    • Jun 2014
    • 87

    123 Amax accuracy issues

    I've tried to get the 123 Amax to shoot well for me, but always seem to get a least one flier. I've tried various charges of XBR 8028 and CFE 223. The best load was 28.5 XBR 8028. That load was sub MOA, but when I loaded more and shot another group, I had fliers that opened it up to 1.5 inches. Since I has at least one good group with that combo, I'm wondering if it is the bullets causing the issue. I've had the 60 gr Vmaxes do the same thing in a match 223 Wylde barrel. Has anyone else had issues with fliers with the 123 Amax?

    I think I'm going to pick up some 120 and 107 gr SMK's and 100 and 120 gr Nosler BT's to see if I can't get this barrel to shoot better. I haven't seen much load data for the lighter bullets. I have H335 on hand and it seems to perform well according to the Lyman manual. Does anyone have an accurate load they worked up with the 107 match king or 100 gr ballistic tip?

    [IMG]CAM00506 by Adam C, on Flickr[/IMG]

    This was 28.5 gr XBR 8028 and 123 Amax. I have not been able to reproduce this group

    [IMG]CAM00503 by Adam C, on Flickr[/IMG]

    31.5 gr CFE 223. I had a good group going, but the flier opened it up to 2"

    [IMG]CAM00504 by Adam C, on Flickr[/IMG]

    30.0 gr CFE 223

    [IMG]CAM00508 by Adam C, on Flickr[/IMG]

    29.5 gr CFE 223. That is a 5 shot group
    Last edited by molar; 10-10-2015, 01:21 PM.
  • VASCAR2
    Chieftain
    • Mar 2011
    • 6218

    #2
    I have had very good luck with 29.0 grains of H-335, CCI 450 primers in Hornady cases with 100 grain Nosler Ballistic tips.

    Comment

    • bwaites
      Moderator
      • Mar 2011
      • 4445

      #3
      Nosler 100 and 120 Ballistic tips seem to shoot well for almost everyone, as do 120 Sierras. 107 Sierras shoot VERY well for me over 28.5 of 8208 in my 28 inch rifle. (Best group is sub .2 MOA), with frequent .25 MOA or better.

      Comment

      • molar
        Bloodstained
        • Jun 2014
        • 87

        #4
        Thanks for the replies. Is 28.5 gr 8028 still the max for the 120 SMK?

        If I can't get my barrel to shoot any of these well, I'll probably sell it and buy a JP Supermatch

        Comment

        • Drillboss
          Warrior
          • Jan 2015
          • 894

          #5
          Molar, you might want to check your scope mounts. I think I've been chasing my tail for the last couple months with a wobbly scope.

          Comment

          • molar
            Bloodstained
            • Jun 2014
            • 87

            #6
            Originally posted by Drillboss View Post
            Molar, you might want to check your scope mounts. I think I've been chasing my tail for the last couple months with a wobbly scope.
            Scope mount is a Nikon M223 XR with 20MOA cant. I torqued the mount to 35 in lbs and the scope rings to 20 in lbs and used blue loctite. I don't think it is the scope or mount.

            In between groups, I was making windage and elevation adjustments to the scope. That is why the groups seem to impact differently

            Comment

            • earl39
              Unwashed
              • Sep 2014
              • 18

              #7
              Want to know what the gun will do then quit adjusting your scope. You are on paper so do a 15 or 20 shot group without making any adjustments. The fliers could be your scope settling in. If you have a flier early in your large string group odds are it is your scope or mount.

              Comment

              • molar
                Bloodstained
                • Jun 2014
                • 87

                #8
                Originally posted by earl39 View Post
                Want to know what the gun will do then quit adjusting your scope. You are on paper so do a 15 or 20 shot group without making any adjustments. The fliers could be your scope settling in. If you have a flier early in your large string group odds are it is your scope or mount.
                Fliers always seem to be the 4th or 5th round

                Comment

                • earl39
                  Unwashed
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 18

                  #9
                  Originally posted by molar View Post
                  Fliers always seem to be the 4th or 5th round
                  After you make an adjustment to the scope?

                  Comment

                  • molar
                    Bloodstained
                    • Jun 2014
                    • 87

                    #10
                    Originally posted by earl39 View Post
                    After you make an adjustment to the scope?
                    No. The last time I adjusted the scope was at 30.0 gr CFE 223. I then shot groups with 30.5, 31.0, and 31.5 without further adjustments to the scope. The flier in the group shot with 31.5 CFE223 was the 5th shot.

                    Comment

                    • cst
                      Warrior
                      • Jan 2014
                      • 239

                      #11
                      Is that 4th or 5th round the last round in the mag? Sometimes the last couple rounds in a mag don't have the same feed pressure and may not feed with the same force as the rounds before...happens to a few of my guns

                      Comment

                      • rabiddawg
                        Chieftain
                        • Feb 2013
                        • 1664

                        #12
                        I think my fliers are psychological and the gun doesn't have a brain.

                        Not sure I buy a mag having anything to do with fliers. Once it is stripped from the mag the mag is done.
                        Knowing everthing isnt as important as knowing where to find it.

                        Mark Twain

                        http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...2-Yd-Whitetail

                        Comment

                        • SG4247
                          Warrior
                          • Aug 2013
                          • 497

                          #13
                          For me, fliers are nearly always the shooter (where I know I pulled it) or poorly prepped brass.
                          NRA F-Class Mid Range High Master

                          Comment

                          • Confederate
                            Bloodstained
                            • Nov 2014
                            • 28

                            #14
                            With a gas gun, the bolt locking back after shooting the last round in the mag interrupts the cycle of function and will throw off that round. That is why if your going to shoot 5 rounds, load 6. If your going to shoot 3 rounds load 4.

                            Comment

                            • LR1955
                              Super Moderator
                              • Mar 2011
                              • 3355

                              #15
                              Originally posted by molar View Post
                              No. The last time I adjusted the scope was at 30.0 gr CFE 223. I then shot groups with 30.5, 31.0, and 31.5 without further adjustments to the scope. The flier in the group shot with 31.5 CFE223 was the 5th shot.
                              How good are you at calling your shots?

                              Also, what did you expect? Guys will write here describing their very best groups and it is easy for someone to believe that the name Grendel alone will result in half minute or less accuracy. Facts are that very few barrels and loads will shoot a Grendel or anything else for that matter out of a gas gun consistently, dependably, and on demand under 3/4 of a minute. I mean 3/4 MOA is the biggest group, not the mean group. If your Grendel consistently holds 3/4 minute, you have a pretty damn good combination of ammo, rifle, sighting system, position, and you since you are the one pointing the barrel and pulling the trigger. If your mean group is 1/2 minute, you got lucky with the barrel, load, gas system, bolt, and who knows what else. Most people can't hold 1/2 minute consistently so don't sweat it just yet.

                              earl39 has some sound advice that you may want to try before getting rid of a barrel and or chasing your tail. I would go with four each five shot groups, each group shot in no more than 15 seconds with a solid focus on holding the sight picture through every single shot. Or you can go with two each ten shot groups fired with a focus on the same thing. Might as well try. However, if you go into the test thinking that one shot will be out, you will probably put one shot out. Thats why I asked if you could call your shots. If you are real good at that task, when a shot goes out, you know it instantly, dump it instantly, and will be able to get your focus on holding the sight picture through the rest of your shots in that string.

                              Advice is cheap, ammo isn't. Barrels are even more expensive so be sure before dumping a barrel is my advice.

                              LR55
                              Last edited by LR1955; 10-10-2015, 09:44 PM.

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