Gun Safety...It IS really important

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • LRRPF52
    Super Moderator
    • Sep 2014
    • 8569

    Gun Safety...It IS really important

    I want to emphasize safety again when dealing with firearms. I witnessed countless safety violations with some other patrons of a range where we were conducting training last weekend, and a 10yr-old boy was needlessly killed the weekend before that out hunting with his family when one of his hunting companions was removing a rifle from an ATV, and fired the rifle, striking the boy and killing him.

    ALWAYS keep a firearms pointed in a SAFE DIRECTION.
    ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
    ALWAYS keep a gun unloaded until ready to use.
    Be Aware of your backstop, target, what's around it, and the ballistic potential of your cartridge/firearm system.

    After watching some guys flag each other to the back of the head, lower back, and general cavalier handling of handguns at the range, we encountered a family who were not wearing any eye protection in the Cowboy town, to include an unattended 3yr-old boy. They were blasting away at the large steel targets in the bays, some of which are only 7yds away, and one boy was hit in the face with a ricochet within .5 seconds of me telling them they needed eye pro.

    "Oh, he'll be fine." Plink, "Ahhhhhhhh!"

    I was flagged to the face and chest immediately after that by one of the kids holding a loaded rifle as I attempted to equip the family with all of my extra eye pro.

    Later on, they asked us to stop shooting, because....

    "We're missing a kid!"

    The little 3yr-old had wandered off, and could not be located. After a frantic search, he was found inside one of the shooting bays alone, sitting on top of the mock-up horse with saddle. They then moved on to the restricted LE range and shot out one of the windows. You can't make this stuff up, and I have several witnesses, one of whom is a forum member. It was madness.

    If you haven't received an NRA course on firearms safety, I strongly advise that you do so. They are substantially different than the substandard safety training we received in the military, with priorities on what order you ALWAYS do certain things, starting with safe direction. Most courses have taught to ensure a gun is unloaded, which often leads to some moron determining that condition by pulling the trigger, and people that aren't gun educated don't know exactly what unloaded means, or how to determine it.
    Last edited by LRRPF52; 10-21-2015, 10:32 PM.
    NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

    CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

    6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

    www.AR15buildbox.com
  • GM2
    Bloodstained
    • Nov 2015
    • 63

    #2
    I can second this, one of the E2's on the last ship I was stationed on was disassembling his personal Glock at home and discharged it into his hand. The first thing I teach people is every time you pick up or are handed a firearm check to see if it is loaded.

    Comment

    • LRRPF52
      Super Moderator
      • Sep 2014
      • 8569

      #3
      I would advise the specific focus and order of the NRA safety methods. I've seen people casually or rudely grab a firearm from someone else, when it would have been better to just tell them to keep it pointed in a safe direction, while keeping their finger off the trigger. I had a drunk foreign soldier do this once with me, and I don't drink. He had to prove that he knew these things better than the rest, and assumed I was some novice to firearms. It got to the point where I would have had to escalate to violence if I wanted to keep the pistol in my control, so I just let him have it, already knowing it was unloaded since I checked it before he came around.

      He ended up looking like an ass, and was frowned on by the leadership in the unit that was hosting me there.

      ALWAYS keep a firearm pointed in a safe direction.
      ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
      ALWAYS keep a gun unloaded until ready to use.

      These prioritized steps make a lot more sense to me than any talk of unloaded first, since so many people are not familiar with the specific action of the firearm in question. I watched an RSO today who has been RSO'ing for 17 years, not know how to work the action on an AR15. He could tell when walking by if it was locked to the rear or BCG forward, but wasn't familiar with the manual of arms of the AR15.

      Now take someone who knows nothing about guns, who is handling a firearm, and you call them out in a setting, particularly among other people. The rooms gets quiet, and all eyes are on them. Not only do they not know how to safely handle a firearm, but they know nothing of its mechanical functions. Right after you ask them, "Is that loaded?", they clam up, the frontal cortex loses almost all bloodflow, and their brainstem takes over. All they have seen in movies all their lives is Hollywood actors running around with their fingers on the trigger, flagging everyone, and blasting away. In that state of mind, the thinking goes like this:

      Social stress...uggg
      Gun my hand...ugg searching for any frame of reference...little lightbulb
      Finger on trigger...something quickly says "Don't do that."
      They do it anyway...

      BLAM!rrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

      "Oh f**k! Is she ok? Is she ok! Oh no! Oh no!"

      How many times has this been the truth, versus the BS we are told in the presstitute vomit product? "A man was cleaning/handling/checking out a gun, when it went off and shot his daughter/friend/son/neighbor/poor bystander/kid at a party."

      It's never, "Some ignoramus or negligent person was handling a firearm carelessly. With it pointed directly at [insert victim description here], the negligent offender pulled the trigger, and their target died/was seriously injured."

      We never hear that. It's always, "the gun just went and fired itself".

      One of the best things to do is start with toys and teach kids the 3 major NRA safety rules. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS

      Then you can show them different action types so people are more familiar with them.
      NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

      CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

      6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

      www.AR15buildbox.com

      Comment

      • GM2
        Bloodstained
        • Nov 2015
        • 63

        #4
        I wasn't quite referring to people with little to no experience with firearms. I'm talking about in addition to what is taught in firearms safety courses, (such as NRA or State) getting into the habit of every time you pick up your weapon checking to ensure no rounds are chambered. It only takes one time to lose a finger.

        But I agree there are far to many people who are careless about safety. Every time I go to a small town range where there is no RSO I am amazed by the amount of stupid and obliviously dangerous shit I see.

        Comment

        • NugginFutz
          Chieftain
          • Aug 2013
          • 2622

          #5
          Originally posted by GM2 View Post
          But I agree there are far to many people who are careless about safety. Every time I go to a small town range where there is no RSO I am amazed by the amount of stupid and obliviously dangerous shit I see.
          I see the same thing even at a "Big City" range with paid RO's (minimum wage?) watching over the line. Anyone with the price of admission (usually $5 - $10) can stand at the line with firepower up to and including 50BMG and tear it up. Several of the RO's have told me that they've yet to see anyone escorted from the range, no matter how serious the infraction. This initially surprised me, as I've seen a few doozies (from unsafe handling to discharging their firearm during cease-fire, to a fatal self-inflicted AD in the parking lot).

          My point here is that I feel quite a bit safer at the smaller private ranges where individual safety training is required as part of the membership process. Almost without exception, I see a much more conscientious cross section of shooters at the private ranges. At the nearby private ranges, members act as their own RO, as opposed to at the city's shooting carnival. Only once have I encountered a shooter who would not adhere to safe practices and obey the RO's direction. I was the guest of the acting RO, and our response was simple - we packed up and left. On the way out, the obstinate shooter was informed that HE was now the RO and could now do as he pleased. (He was also the only other shooter on the line.)

          Bottom line, an RSO cannot stop an unsafe act from occurring - that is ultimately up to each shooter. An RSO can only try to anticipate an impending unsafe condition based on things they've already seen happen. (Apologies to any RSO's in the group - I mean no disrespect.)
          If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

          Comment

          • A5BLASTER
            Chieftain
            • Mar 2015
            • 6192

            #6
            Being that I at a young age watched a family member die because anouther family member tryed to empty a loaded gun that he knew nothing about and had never fired are handled a gun before much less be trained in gun saftey. I think it should be just like when you get your hunters and boaters saftey card you have to go to a 36 hour class before you could buy a gun and also think they should include gun saftey in the hunter safety class you must take to get your hunting licence.

            Im from louisiana and what I have seen in my few short years is down here most parents are family members buys a gun for someone gives it to them shows them how to load it and work the saftey and how to aim it, thats about it, basically no saftey training at all.

            Im not perfect nobody is but I do everything in my power not to endanger myself and others with my acctivites with my weapons and have done all I can to teach freinds and family gun saftey.

            Comment

            • LRRPF52
              Super Moderator
              • Sep 2014
              • 8569

              #7
              A 5yr-old boy was shot in the head and killed this weekend. Several red flags jump out from this story.

              A Tennessee family is still grieving after a 5-year-old was accidentally shot by his brother. It's a reminder of how quickly things can go wrong.

              It was the laser on Andrew Turner's father's gun that police say grabbed his brother's attention. His father was using the laser to entertain the cat when he told detectives he sat it down for a second to go into the kitchen.
              It's the holiday season, the time of year to spend with family and friends, but during the hustle and bustle, you may be forgetting something deadly in your home.
              NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

              CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

              6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

              www.AR15buildbox.com

              Comment

              • NugginFutz
                Chieftain
                • Aug 2013
                • 2622

                #8
                Un-f*****g believable. Not a clue in sight.
                If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

                Comment

                • cory
                  Chieftain
                  • Jun 2012
                  • 2985

                  #9
                  Originally posted by A5BLASTER View Post
                  Being that I at a young age watched a family member die because anouther family member tryed to empty a loaded gun that he knew nothing about and had never fired are handled a gun before much less be trained in gun saftey. I think it should be just like when you get your hunters and boaters saftey card you have to go to a 36 hour class before you could buy a gun and also think they should include gun saftey in the hunter safety class you must take to get your hunting licence.

                  Im from louisiana and what I have seen in my few short years is down here most parents are family members buys a gun for someone gives it to them shows them how to load it and work the saftey and how to aim it, thats about it, basically no saftey training at all.

                  Im not perfect nobody is but I do everything in my power not to endanger myself and others with my acctivites with my weapons and have done all I can to teach freinds and family gun saftey.
                  Slippery slope that I'll never condone. If a poll test to vote is an infringement to ones "right" to vote it sure as hell is and infringement to the 2nd.

                  However, I do think you should have to be able to recite the 5 safety rules verbatim to graduate elementary, middle and high school and to receive a driver's license. If it was up to me the local Marine recruiter would come to the schools to teach the kids.
                  "Those who sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin

                  Comment

                  • LRRPF52
                    Super Moderator
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 8569

                    #10
                    NRA Instructors have done a lot to reduce accidents with firearms, because of training.

                    I would still rather live in a society where rednecks have access to guns with lasers so they can entertain their cats, than one where scientists and businessmen have to beg permission from the police to join a gun club in hopes to be able to store a shotgun there, after passing a series of draconian tests.
                    NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                    CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                    6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                    www.AR15buildbox.com

                    Comment

                    • customcutter
                      Warrior
                      • Dec 2014
                      • 452

                      #11
                      Unfortunately common sense isn't common at all.

                      While visiting relatives over the holiday, my great nephew saw me coming in one morning from deer hunting. My AR was in a tactical case, and he wanted to know if he could see it. He's only six, so I told him he had to get permission from his mother and father, which I was sure they would give. So at the age of six, he got his first gun safety training class, then we went out into the yard and I let him use a mono-pod and look at some of the cattle in the pasture behind the house through the scope. It took him a few seconds to adjust from trying to use the scope like binoculars, but he finally got the hang of it. Later that night I took him and his dad out and let them look through my thermal scope, a Zeus 3X 75mm. There were 4 does in the pasture west of the house about 500 yds away, but we could easily make them out. I say they were does, I don't think the rack wouldn't give off a heat signature this time of year. One could have been a buck I suppose. He's a very responsible and courteous young man, and even at the age of six was able to answer safety questions when I asked him a half hour after his lesson.

                      Comment

                      • motoxxx_ryder
                        Warrior
                        • Mar 2015
                        • 180

                        #12
                        what makes me want to punch someone in the face hard as fu**?

                        "don't worry bro its not loaded....."



                        the only thing that i dont do that some consider to be a hard rule is the safety. I dont always use my safety, i follow the other rules and keep my finger out the trigger until im ready to fire and thus the gun doesnt go boom.

                        Comment

                        • LRRPF52
                          Super Moderator
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 8569

                          #13
                          Relying on a mechanical safety is not part of the NRA safety rules for a reason.

                          I personally use a mechanical safety on a firearm if it has one, but never rely on it.

                          ALWAYS keep a firearm pointed in a safe direction.
                          ALWAYS keep your finger of the trigger until ready to shoot.
                          NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                          CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                          6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                          www.AR15buildbox.com

                          Comment

                          • rabiddawg
                            Chieftain
                            • Feb 2013
                            • 1664

                            #14
                            I don't rely on the mechanical safety either. Something that has me concerned is having found my mechanical safety in the fire position after having the gun slung over my shoulder and walking to the stand.

                            Any ideas on what I could do to prevent the lever from getting inadvertently moved?
                            Knowing everthing isnt as important as knowing where to find it.

                            Mark Twain

                            http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...2-Yd-Whitetail

                            Comment

                            • NugginFutz
                              Chieftain
                              • Aug 2013
                              • 2622

                              #15
                              Other than being more conscientious about how I carried the rifle, I wouldn't tamper with the safety under any circumstances (too many legal issues, should an AD or ND occur). Instead, I would simply incorporate setting the safety to the "off/fire" position as a part of regular practice. That is how I train with my 1911 and any of my rifles. Whether or not the weapon is on safe, the draw movement includes taking it off safe as insurance. Regardless, any weapon should be treated as loaded and in the Fire position.
                              If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X