Grendel vs 7.62x39 for pigs

[nuthead]

Hi All,

I was hoping to either build a grendel on my cz527 (currently an x39) or just buy a howa mini in a grendel.

I was wondering how the Grendel would compare to the x39 on pigs? On paper it looks better than the little russian - similar weight 123gr, higher SDs, around 2600fps in a bolt gun - i was hoping the ssts would get some good penetration but I've heard that it doesn't kill as well for some reason?

If it really isn't as good on pigs as the x39, I'll build the grendel on the cz action and just use it as a mid-long range deer and goat gun and get a howa in 7.62x39 for pigs (the bigger mag cap suits what i want it for better)

Any first hand experience/ opinions would be much appreciated

[JASmith]

The 120gr-class SST will perform about the same whether in .264 or in .308 caliber.

Check posts by Double Naught Spy -- I think he has harvested more than a 100 of the critters using the factory 123 gr SST.

[nuthead]

Thanks JASmith - I've searched his posts and found his youtube videos - i like the narration lol very entertaining

[Double Naught Spy]

My only real complaint is that the SSTs don't stay together, which maybe really helps their lethality. 81Police really likes the Barnes TSX rounds that do stay together and punch through hogs just fine.

Speaking of .308, when I run through these last 30 rounds or so of SSA loaded Nosler Accubond ammo, I will be trying out SSTs for my .308.

[nuthead]

My only real complaint is that the SSTs don't stay together, which maybe really helps their lethality. 81Police really likes the Barnes TSX rounds that do stay together and punch through hogs just fine.

Speaking of .308, when I run through these last 30 rounds or so of SSA loaded Nosler Accubond ammo, I will be trying out SSTs for my .308.

Hey Double Naught Spy,

awesome videos - I enjoyed them!

yeah it almost seems like the SST's have a similar contruction to the amax (except with a cannelure) - from what I can tell the penetration with them is pretty good.

A lot of the shots I take are on fast departing pigs under a spotlight - would a texas heart shot with an SST anchor them?

[81police]

A lot of the shots I take are on fast departing pigs under a spotlight - would a texas heart shot with an SST anchor them?

Here's a "texas heart shot" with a 123gr SST. Shot was across a ravine, eye level, at 50+ yards. It did stop the pig, but death wasn't immediate. You can estimate the length of the pig as my barrel is 18". NO EXIT WOUND, the SST stopped inside the pig.

Now the following is my opinion only, but I wouldn't again take this shot again because I don't feel it lines up with my personal hunting ethics. Pigs are often vilified here in Texas, but to me they are still God's creation and I'd prefer to let one run than make a inhumane shot. If I can get a bullet anywhere in the front end I'm good, but if this shot were taken on a larger hog it may never be recovered. Y'all decide for yourselves, but I just wanted to share my thoughts on the matter.

P.S. SST's are great bullets

[Double Naught Spy]

would a texas heart shot with an SST anchor them?

I would not count on any shot that doesn't hit or otherwise significantly damage CNS to anchor a hog. Somewhere in my notes, I have a .308 or .45-70 example that broke both front legs (humeri) and hitting the lungs along the way (what would typically be considered a good shot) where the hog still ran over 75 yards. People say that if you take out "the landing gear" that hogs can't run. That isn't always the case. You can take out the landing gear, lungs, and/or heart, but if you don't hit CNS either directly or indirectly and do significant damage, the hog may run.

By indirectly causing significant damage to the CNS, I mean by hydrostatic shock, which is not 100% reliable, though folks often rely on it when making "behind the ear" and "neck" shots. This is a behind the ear shot and is a neck shot and the pig survived and healed up well enough for me to shoot it sometime later. The entry wound had healed completely, but the large exit wound was still oozy. The exiting bullet even clipped the external ear (pinna)



I have made through and through neck shots that did not hit the spine that killed the hog, DRT. The only explanation I can come up with is hydrostatic shock. I made a head shot on a hog that passed under his eyes through the sinuses without involving the brain cavity that killed the hog, DRT. The only explanations are hydrostatic shock and/or indirect trauma to the brain. However, I prefer my neck shots to be quartered toward me such that the bullet goes into the chest or quartered away where the bullet goes into the head. I have had bad luck in consistently hitting the spine when trying a neck shot, even though the shot usually works either way. I prefer my head shots to involve the bullet entering the brain cavity.

A Texas heart shot is not apt to anchor a hog, not an adult anyway, regardless of hunting ammo.

[LRRPF52]

I'll put it this way. Many Russians in their firearms community have been asking themselves for years now why they didn't go with 6.5mm in that case back in the 1940's.

The only reason they used the .311 bore (not really 7.62mm) is because they had an industry cranking out rifle barrels with that bore dating back to the 1800's with the joint Russian-French design known as the Mosin Nagant.

The other problem they faced is that much of their engineering and scientific population had been murdered or exiled during the purges of Lenin and Stalin. The real smart ones saw the writing on the wall and bailed to greener pastures, many to England, France, the US, etc.

7.62x39 should have never been born, and would have been an excellent cartridge in 6.5mm, rather than poor/medicore at best cartridge that it is. For hunting at close ranges, you won't see a big difference, but 6.5mm opens up longer shots for you, and has much better SD, which can help with penetration, and penetration is what you really want with animals like this, where the hide is thick.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Same 123gr weight bullet, 6.5 Grendel wins over 7.62 Russian any day. Does everything the 7.62x39 does and then some. But I suppose you could argue the 7.62x39 has cheap, steel-case practice ammo . . . oh, wait.

[Drift]

I did just what you are considering. Started out with a 527 for hog hunting, then converted it to 6.5 Grendel. Out to about 125 yards or so I could tell no real difference on hogs. After that, the Grendel was clearly superior. The Grendel was superior because of its accuracy; while the 7.62x39 was shooting 2 or 3 inch groups the Grendel still under an inch. Maybe just knowing that my Grendel was crazy accurate was enough to give me the confidence to make the shots that I would not try when the rifle was 7.62x39.
I believe that when you select to a strong bolt action Grendel for hunting, you are at least opening the door
to to improving on AR Grendel performance.

[GSPHunter]

7.62x39 should have never been born, and would have been an excellent cartridge in 6.5mm, rather than poor/medicore at best cartridge that it is. For hunting at close ranges, you won't see a big difference, but 6.5mm opens up longer shots for you, and has much better SD, which can help with penetration, and penetration is what you really want with animals like this, where the hide is thick.

Actually, if you compare the 7.62x39 with its contemporary intermediate cartridges (ie 7.92x33 or .30 Carbine) the soviet M43 is a pretty good round....of course with modern powders and bullets the 6.5G is the best of its class :-)

[Coty]

I shoot a lot of hogs with the Grendel, my current load is 30 grains of 8208 XBR over a 100 grain Barnes TTSX. The Grendel is a winner on longer range over the 7.62 x 39. I've shot hogs just under 300 yards. The hog skull in the link below was 215 yards.

I have the opposite problem you guys mention with the 123 SST. I've never recovered a Barnes bullet, they all pass through. They are expanding and leaving an exit wound, but for our small white tail and hogs the SST might work better. I'm about to load some up and compare them to the TTSX.

Here's a link to a post I did earlier.

Opening day

[kmon]

Have used both cartridges for hogs and will take the Grendel any day over the 39. For hogs something tells me I am going to like the 125gr partitions best but they are not cheap.

[nuthead]

Have used both cartridges for hogs and will take the Grendel any day over the 39. For hogs something tells me I am going to like the 125gr partitions best but they are not cheap.

interesting - do you take the grendel because of the extra range it offers or another reason?

I like the x39 for some reason its not the newest round in the world but i have a soft spot for it (because its cheap, has a story behind it and its fun to shoot!) they stop pigs very effectively with broadside and even quartering shots but it is inefficient at longer ranges

heres a video of a guy using one on pigs - I'm quite keen to see how the grendel compares!

[kmon]

The Grendel will work close or far and get better penetration with the higher sectional density of the 6.5 bullets. Perhaps if I had tried different bullets in the X39 I might have liked it better but never got a pass through even on broadside shots on hogs or deer with the X39 and have with the Grendel using similar cup and core bullets. Then there are more better constructed bullets for the 6.5 caliber than the 311 for hunting, partitions, accubonds amd siroccos are bullets I have faith in and are available in weights that work well in the Grendel. Never have been a fan of the mono metal bullets so haven't tried them in the Grendel or X39.

Some of the pigs I take are 300+ yards, would not try that with my SKS. In close cover the SKS works fine but where I hunt hogs it might be close or long shots and the Grendel fits that type hunting real good.