A-Max Hunting?

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  • GM2
    Bloodstained
    • Nov 2015
    • 63

    A-Max Hunting?

    These bullets are not recommended for hunting.

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    It seems like from longer Grendels it should be fine and will still expand up close but once you get past 400 yards it might not expand at all.

    Thoughts?
  • Roe
    Warrior
    • Dec 2014
    • 190

    #2
    Hornady's own testing


    I can't see any difference from the other bullets except GMX and VMAX.
    I have shot roe deer in the hundreds with 120-123-140gr with V0 from 770 to 890 msec.

    Here is the typical effect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg8wIG_uOiE

    Friends on New Zealand use the 6,5mm 140gr with success on red deer. They say "super at range, just ok in close". I myself have never shot big game with Amax.
    Last edited by Roe; 11-30-2015, 01:20 PM.

    Comment

    • pkee
      Bloodstained
      • Nov 2014
      • 97

      #3
      I used A-Max's 110g and 150g in my .300 Blackout . I shot several Javlina with them . The damage was crazy with no exits . All were shot behind the shoulder or neck . Its like thay exploded inside . I used what was on the shelf at Bass Pro it seems like thats all thay stock .
      After seeing what the A-Max was doing i did not trust using them on a big buck .
      This was 4 or 5 years ago .
      I got a 6.5 Grendel after that and have not used any other gun since then . I just loaded up some 140 A-Max to break in my new 16" Alexander light barrel . I won't be using A-Max for hunting anymore just using them for sighting in and plinking .

      Comment

      • GM2
        Bloodstained
        • Nov 2015
        • 63

        #4
        Nope go back and re-read what I posted.

        First vid is their .308 at close range (which I already said it will work at)

        Second vid was all within 450 yards (411m)

        It is not designed to expand below 2000 fps (609.6 msec) . Out of the muzzle you have well over that. Beyond 450 yards with a 24" barrel you will not (closer with a shorter barrel)

        All in all if your hunting close to medium range (sub 400 yards) A-Max is as effective as any round for hunting. Beyond that you might as well be using FMJ.

        Comment

        • ricsmall
          Warrior
          • Sep 2014
          • 987

          #5
          Here's a doe shot at 501 yds with a 123 amax. Impact velocity around 1850 fps. Shot out of a 260 fire forming load with 2700 muzzle velocity.

          Richard


          Member since 2011, data lost in last hack attack

          Comment

          • LRRPF52
            Super Moderator
            • Sep 2014
            • 8569

            #6
            The 123gr AMAX behaves pretty much like an SST. People were killing everything they pointed it at before Hornady made the 123gr SST.

            Expansion can be more than double caliber. Penetration is deep, and weight retention is around 80%.

            If you look in Volume II of the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks, there is a table that includes the 123gr AMAX and how it compares to many hunting bullets.

            At 2599fps impact speed, it went 21.5" deep, retained 83% weight, and expanded to .60 caliber. This type of performance on game is pretty common, when people have been able to recover the pills.
            NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

            CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

            6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

            www.AR15buildbox.com

            Comment

            • GM2
              Bloodstained
              • Nov 2015
              • 63

              #7
              I think what im going to end up doing is get some ballistic gel set up and test a bunch of rounds at 400 500 and 600 yards. Going to have to wait a few more weeks though until the ice is thick enough to set up on.

              Been looking around and found ballistic gel tests at close range and a few tests out at 500 but those were with a .308

              Comment

              • Roe
                Warrior
                • Dec 2014
                • 190

                #8
                Originally posted by GM2 View Post
                Nope go back and re-read what I posted.
                [...]
                It is not designed to expand below 2000 fps (609.6 msec) .
                Yeah, re-read and got you now!
                The 123 Amax seems to do well down towards 450'ish m/sec (1500'ish fps), but not sure if they expand reliably or my shots have been flukes. I wouldn't bet on reliable performance and I haven't shot enough deer at these ranges.

                This is the only 140gr Amax I've ever recovered from a deer, angled shot from behind and bullet found as a lump under the skin opposite shoulder. I estimate impact velocity was approximately 580 m/sec or 1900 fps.

                Comment

                • LRRPF52
                  Super Moderator
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 8569

                  #9
                  Originally posted by GM2 View Post
                  I think what im going to end up doing is get some ballistic gel set up and test a bunch of rounds at 400 500 and 600 yards. Going to have to wait a few more weeks though until the ice is thick enough to set up on.

                  Been looking around and found ballistic gel tests at close range and a few tests out at 500 but those were with a .308
                  Do you have 6.5 Grendel Volume II: Hunting Handbook yet?

                  There are a lot of gel tests with multiple impact speeds for each bullet.

                  There's a long range hunting outfit that prefers the AMAX as a hunting bullet over most others. They get good accuracy and expansion because of the polymer tip.
                  NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                  CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                  6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                  www.AR15buildbox.com

                  Comment

                  • GM2
                    Bloodstained
                    • Nov 2015
                    • 63

                    #10
                    Nope don't have the book yet, where can i get one? Does it have low velocity tests or test on min velocity required to expand each round? ie what im looking for?

                    And i should back track, its not that it wont expand below 2000fps its that it's below optimum. My only concern is if you get out to 600 with it will it just punch a hole?
                    Last edited by GM2; 11-30-2015, 10:21 PM.

                    Comment

                    • LRRPF52
                      Super Moderator
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 8569

                      #11
                      If you want to shoot to 600yd with reliable expansion, the Nosler 129gr ABLR is what you are looking for. It expands down to 1300fps.

                      The 123gr SST expands down to ~1800fps. Volume II has many bullets shot from muzzle velocity down through the lower impact speeds to see where expansion actually stopped. The 123gr AMAX has been used out to 752yds on antelope, but I would be hesitant to use it on deer past 500yds.

                      The Barnes 127gr LRX will expand way down into the 1500-1600fps range as well.

                      NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                      CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                      6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                      www.AR15buildbox.com

                      Comment

                      • GM2
                        Bloodstained
                        • Nov 2015
                        • 63

                        #12
                        Nice, will look into this. Thanks

                        Comment

                        • Kilco
                          Chieftain
                          • Jan 2016
                          • 1201

                          #13
                          I cant say anything regarding .264 amax bullets, but ive harvested two bucks and a doe with the 178 amax from my m700 .308. All three of them hit the ground hard. DRT. All shots were from 200-300 yards though, nothing too "extreme"

                          Comment

                          • JASmith
                            Chieftain
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 1620

                            #14
                            Nope don't have the book yet, where can i get one? Does it have low velocity tests or test on min velocity required to expand each round? ie what im looking for?

                            And i should back track, its not that it wont expand below 2000fps its that it's below optimum. My only concern is if you get out to 600 with it will it just punch a hole?
                            Try ar15buildbox.com.

                            The tests verified both performance at max Grendel velocity and identified threshold expansion velocity.
                            Last edited by JASmith; 02-07-2016, 11:00 PM.
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                            • bruceleroy
                              Bloodstained
                              • Dec 2015
                              • 87

                              #15
                              I have 3 kills with AMAX bullets.

                              1. Cow elk, 20 yards with a 208 AMAX from a 308. Looked at me all confused, walked 10 yards and lied down.
                              2. Mule deer buck, 101 yards with a 178 AMAX factory load 308. Pinhole entrance through the shoulder, mini nuclear bomb in the chest cavity with a 3 inch exit hole
                              3. Cow elk, 305 yards with a 178 AMAX handload from a 308. Stumbled on impact, stood up straight walked about 5 steps and dropped

                              Only #2 had an exit wound. Im okay with that since the damage incurred by this round is devastating. AMAX used to be considered a hunting round but no longer due to better alternatives.

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