Hodgdon Varget loads better???????

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  • LR1955
    Super Moderator
    • Mar 2011
    • 3355

    #16
    Originally posted by WpSniper71 View Post
    3" group at 547 is Badass!
    I am going to build some loads, and post my results.
    WpS:

    How good are you at doping winds?

    I believe he did shoot a 3" group at 547 yards. I also believe if he had fired five more groups that the average group size would have opened up to 6 or 8 inches.

    I recall testing a Nightforce 'Velocity Reticle' optic with a 20 inch Grendel at 600 yards. The chamber was what is known as a 6.5 LBC today. Bolt was a standard Grendel bolt. I was shooting 123 Lapua's with 30 1/2 grains of 2520 and CCI 450's.

    I shot from the prone using a couple of GI sand bags under the forend and a bag under the stock. Shot five in about ten seconds, drove to the target and was stunned to see five shots in a group about five inches tall and three wide. Not only that, the group was only two inches higher than center which means the reticle actually worked for that load in terms of holding elevation.

    I drove back to the firing line and waited out a condition then shot five more. Surprisingly, the second group was only a couple inches right and I believe a bit lower and the same size. Not bad for a fixed reticle pattern in 10X.

    It was cold and rain at the time but not much wind.

    I sheared a bolt lug on the next test I was running so that was that. At the time, Grendels sheared bolt lugs like nothing else I have seen. Today the bolts are made much better and don't seem to shear lugs as often.

    I would not have bet I could have shot two consecutive groups that size at 600 and certainly wouldn't on a third try. I figure if I shot five groups of five that the average size would have been at best a minute and probably a bit more since it is a gas gun.

    With one of my bolt rifles however, I would have expected under a minute at 600 given the conditions I shot in. Very little wind although a bit dark with some rain.

    Bottom line, it ought to hold about a minute at 600 pretty regularly providing the wind is constant and you doped it right. Some will be bigger and some maybe a touch smaller but you won't hold under a minute every single time.

    LR55
    Last edited by LR1955; 01-29-2016, 12:38 PM.

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    • WpSniper71
      Unwashed
      • Jan 2016
      • 20

      #17
      LR55:
      I'm pretty good.............. Why you ask?
      The Pain you feel, is weakness leaving your body......thank the pain..

      Comment

      • lwminton
        Warrior
        • Nov 2014
        • 143

        #18
        Originally posted by 1911man View Post
        It depends on what you are wanting to do with the round and what bullet you are using. For hunting different bullets get the best expansion at a certain velocity so if you cannot achieve that velocity out to your desired distance you have a problem. For long range target shooting if you want to go out past 800 yards that load is going to be challenged compared to one moving 100fps-150fps faster. For the most part the average shooter is not going to need that extra velocity but again it depends on what you want to do with your gun. I have a 120 SMK/TAC load that flies in the low 2400 fps range and I have shot Steel silhoutes at 600 yards with ease with that load. When I go out farther I like to use one of my faster loads with the 123 AMAX because the extra speed and extra BC help.
        Understood. I don't shoot past 300 yet. I used to shoot the .45 in Bullseye and they taught me to use the least powder that would function the slide.

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        • bwaites
          Moderator
          • Mar 2011
          • 4445

          #19
          Originally posted by WpSniper71 View Post
          LR55:
          I'm pretty good.............. Why you ask?
          Because shooting past 500 is all about doping the wind.

          For me, my doping skill is perishable. If I shoot 3 days in a row, day 3 is by far the best. Each day gets better. If I'm shooting for groups and haven't been shooting for a while, I won't even try when it's windy. I'll wait for a calm day.

          Comment

          • LR1955
            Super Moderator
            • Mar 2011
            • 3355

            #20
            Originally posted by WpSniper71 View Post
            LR55:
            I'm pretty good.............. Why you ask?
            I ask because Varget won't produce a lot of velocity compared to other loads. Probably 100 - 150 fps slower than loads you could get with CFE or 2520.

            2450 fps is pretty slow, despite 'high BC' bullets.

            LR55

            Comment

            • SG4247
              Warrior
              • Aug 2013
              • 497

              #21
              300 yards is hard enough!

              I went out yesterday just to practice shooting in the wind. Our range goes due North, the wind was from the North West at 8-10 mph.

              I dialed in 6/8 MOA left correction, from a perfect 200 yard "no wind" zero. I still needed to hold off about 1" to 1-1/2" back to the right, when the wind slowed down a bit.

              I am pleased with the results from yesterday, but find it very difficult to get windage holds done well. If that target had been a Coyote cruising at 10 mph at the 300 yard line, I would have been lucky to make a good shot.

              6AR 300 Wind 1_28_2016.jpg
              NRA F-Class Mid Range High Master

              Comment

              • JASmith
                Chieftain
                • Sep 2014
                • 1620

                #22
                Originally posted by lwminton View Post
                Understood. I don't shoot past 300 yet. I used to shoot the .45 in Bullseye and they taught me to use the least powder that would function the slide.
                "Been there, Done that!"

                I have long understand the vale of minimizing recoil for the task. Only more recently have I come to appreciate that 50 fps makes little difference for almost all Shooting.

                On the other hand, highly competive shooters like lr1955, bwaites, lrrpf52, etc. scramble for evena tenth of an inch reduction in wind drift. That seemingly trivial difference can mean a dropped point in competition. All too frequently matches are wone or lost to a single point...
                shootersnotes.com

                "To those who have fought and almost died for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
                -- Author Unknown

                "If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished!" -- Milton Berle

                Comment

                • bwaites
                  Moderator
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 4445

                  #23
                  Originally posted by SG4247 View Post
                  300 yards is hard enough!

                  I went out yesterday just to practice shooting in the wind. Our range goes due North, the wind was from the North West at 8-10 mph.

                  I dialed in 6/8 MOA left correction, from a perfect 200 yard "no wind" zero. I still needed to hold off about 1" to 1-1/2" back to the right, when the wind slowed down a bit.

                  I am pleased with the results from yesterday, but find it very difficult to get windage holds done well. If that target had been a Coyote cruising at 10 mph at the 300 yard line, I would have been lucky to make a good shot.

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]7536[/ATTACH]
                  That's great elevation consistency! That is pretty normal lateral distribution with variable winds. Hitting ANY mover at 300 is hard, and it's REALLY hard in the wind!

                  Comment

                  • WpSniper71
                    Unwashed
                    • Jan 2016
                    • 20

                    #24
                    totally understand. The only way to really figure this out is to load and shoot. I have a couple 1 lb tubs of Varget, and if I don't like what I'm getting out of the first lb, I am sure someone is looking for it. I searched for some CFE and will continue to search, but not hard until I get a good set up loads tested.
                    The Pain you feel, is weakness leaving your body......thank the pain..

                    Comment

                    • LR1955
                      Super Moderator
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 3355

                      #25
                      Originally posted by WpSniper71 View Post
                      totally understand. The only way to really figure this out is to load and shoot. I have a couple 1 lb tubs of Varget, and if I don't like what I'm getting out of the first lb, I am sure someone is looking for it. I searched for some CFE and will continue to search, but not hard until I get a good set up loads tested.
                      WpS:

                      Never get rid of Varget! Probably the best universal powder for the .308 capacity types of cartridges. I use it in my 6 BR and all cartridges based on the .308 case. Also 5.56.

                      There was a shortage of the stuff a couple years ago and guys would kill to get any at all. Hold on to the Varget!

                      Many years ago on the forum there was a guy from Maine who hunted with his Grendel using 4320 which is slow for a .308, let alone a Grendel. I doubt he got more than 2250 fps with 120's but he didn't care because he never had a problem killing a deer with his Grendel. I recall he also said he had a huge amount of the stuff. Probably surplus.

                      So, keep the Varget!

                      LR55

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