New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas!

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  • BluntForceTrauma
    Administrator
    • Feb 2011
    • 3897

    #31
    Stan, two different, albeit confusing, uses of the term. Warped's "Big Three" refers to the ammo mfrs Remington, Winchester, and Federal.

    Fortier's "big three" refers to his writer's event for "tactical guns, tactical gear and tactical training."

    John
    :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

    :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

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    • #32
      I think it means that to get another (other than Grendel) round SAAMI certified .....they would need to spend hundreds of thousands on it and it would need to be sponsored by one of the top 3 (to get it certified). That's how I read it anyway.


      So, if another manufacturer wants to make a grendel-like barrel or ammo and decided that they want to change the throat angle or something ...... then that product would not meet the SAAMI specifications for that SAAMI approved chamber/ammo. So, that mean that other makers will now have to change thier specs to meet what was submitted to SAAMI for thier product to be considered certified safe?? Or, is my line of thinking off??
      Last edited by Guest; 10-09-2011, 04:09 AM.

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      • #33
        Well guys, it's not like we have been swearing there's a 'Bigfoot' walking in the woods. We have been walking with the Grendel in hand and know how damn good it is. It seems that the myth has come to life. Historic moments may not all come with fanfare and parades, but they are usually catalysts for rapid change. The 'Gren' is real and we know it's value. Thanks Bill A. We (your Forum supporters) all look forward to the future of your creation and hope you will go down as another Browning, Colt, or Remington in the "Significant Firearms" books.

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        • #34
          Some questions -
          - Previously, was Alexander Arms charging licensing fees as well as controlling the chamber dimensions?
          - If so, I presume this means there are no more such fees, true?
          - If that's the case, then I would expect prices would drop, true?
          - and AA will have to compete straight up with other makers, true?

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          • bwaites
            Moderator
            • Mar 2011
            • 4445

            #35
            Never charged a licensing fee.

            AA always competed straight up, from the early days there were multiple builders, including Sabre, Les Baer, J&T, and many others who agreed to the licensing stipulations regarding proper chamber dimensions.

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            • txgunner00
              Chieftain
              • Mar 2011
              • 2070

              #36
              Originally posted by smoke13 View Post
              I wonder if Satern Machine will start making Grendel barrels again?
              I certainly hope so!
              NRA life, GOA life, SAF, and TSRA

              "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

              George Mason, co-author, 2nd Amendment.

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              • #37
                Does not really matter, there are even better manufacturers online now, they are turning out 6.5mm blanks with the appropriate twists.

                Cut rifle bbls that are world class are available,what more could you ask?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by txgunner00 View Post
                  I certainly hope so!
                  Last time I talk to Satern (couple months ago) I asked them if it was true they weren't making Grendels anymore. They said that is true. Then, I asked them if they would be making any other kind of 6.5mm or 6.5LBC kind of barrel and they said they they were. So, satern is still making 6.5 AR barrels. They are just not making Grendel barrels. Which is why I asked my initial questions about the other barrel makers. If I buy a 6.5LBC (which I wouldn't) would it be considered SAAMI certified since the throat is different than Grendel??

                  Comment

                  • BluntForceTrauma
                    Administrator
                    • Feb 2011
                    • 3897

                    #39
                    Mutt, no it wouldn't, because SAAMI specs define both the cartridge and the chambering. SAAMI has one cartridge and one chambering drawing for 6.5 Grendel.

                    John

                    P.S. With AA's release of licensing requirements, perhaps Satern would just take the easy route back and resume chambering 6.5 Grendel?
                    :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

                    :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I'm confused about why it would matter if it's a SAMMI chamber or not (for the purpose of the last two posts, I realize the implication in the market of it being SAAMI approved)? THe .264LBC chamber is compatable with 6.5 Grendel Ammo. There are a lot of variations of many chambers for many cartridges that are being chambered right now. How many .308 reamer demensions do you think there are? A lot of custom makers tweak chamber specs for customer rifles, but they are still safe to fire SAMMI spec ammo. It really doesn't change anything that I am aware of for a custom maker, except now maybe he could call it a 6.5 Grendel "Tight Neck", or "Match", or whatever instead of coming up with a name that doesn't violate a copyright.

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                      • #41
                        Well, I would assume (and I am really guessing here) that a company would want to stick with a SAAMI certified chamber/ammo for liability reasons. Imagine a person buying rifle and having it kaboom on them. If it wasn't certified to be safe by SAAMI it would be easier for a person to sue the company or store that sells it. But, if I ran a gun store and sold a product that off the shelf that was SAAMI certified, I could stand behind the fact that the weapon and ammo was certified safe and was manufacturered to the listed SAAMI specs. Anything else, would be "non-certified safe" wildcat rifle/ammo.

                        But, that is just a wild guess on my part ...... but it does make sense.

                        I do have to say that the sportsmans warehouse we have in town here only sells certified weapons and ammo.

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                        • #42
                          I think it only matters to the "box stores" of the world, and lawyers. Custom makers have been chambering many variations of many chamberings for years. In your example, everybody who has been selling either 6.5 Grendel, .264 LBC, etc., would not be doing so right now. So, for those besides the box stores and some ammo makers, it changes nothing really except they are now able to use the Grendel name I assume. For the marketplace, it does open up a lot more ammo, gun manufacturers, and lawyered up stores to carrying the Grendel, which is a good thing for everybody. I could be wrong, but I believe SAMMI only specifies demensions and pressures which ammo and chambers are to be spec'd at, it does not certify that a manufacturer is actually making them to spec or out of material that would deem it safe, so there is no SAMMI "cerfitied safe" ammo or gun.
                          Last edited by Guest; 10-09-2011, 11:52 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Changing leade and neck dimensions in the chamber definitely can affect pressures and reliability, which is what people have often seen when using a different chamber with factory Grendel ammo on the larger end of spec.

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                            • #44
                              Wow, glad to see that AA released the Grendel. I had tried to have a 28" cut rifled barrel made but this was about the time that Saturn went out of the Grendel business and no one else produced them. I had talked to AA and had no luck with any of their suggestions. I ended up talking to Pacific Tool and had to order a 264 LBC AR reamer and go gage since they could not sell me a Grendel reamer then sending this to Krieger to have them cut the chamber. The funny thing is after I got the gun together and fired it and measured the brass the neck was .300. I was under the understanding that the neck should be .295 for that reamer. I then measured the reamer and sure enough the reamer measured .300. So now do I have a 264 LBC AR with a .300 neck or do I have a Grendel reamer that is marked as 264 LBC AR?

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                              • #45
                                I think there have been people mixing all different kinds of neck and leade dimensions, which would be deviations from the Grendel chamber. A .300 neck diameter will be the most reliable in an auto-loader. I've seen plenty of people on here with excellent accuracy results using Grendel chambers and both cut-rifled and button-rifled pipes. If it doesn't go bang, supposed accuracy gains from a .295" neck will be meaningless, unless malfunctions were the objective.

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