fictitious war...pick your arms

[stanc]

Note I did not ask the conditions of this future conflict. This is because the US military must be prepared for conflict in any region of the world so the carbine or rifle they use must also be suited for different conditions.

And it doesn't matter what the enemy uses, has, or does. When an enemy starts to lose, they change or get defeated. So, there will never be one carbine or rifle that is perfect for every possible condition but there will be rifles and carbines that are sufficient for all conditions.

Gene,

That's all quite logical, except:

- OP did not say to choose the best rifle/carbine for all future wars. He specified a war. Since we only need to be concerned about selecting for one particular war, we can optimize for the specific conditions, instead of choosing a compromise. That's why the conditions are pertinent.

- Also, there is some question that the discussion even pertains to equipping the US Armed Forces, because the OP said: "So your involved in a fictitious war and need to arm yourself with a semi auto rifle. you may choose between the ar-15 and ar10 platforms." Since OP talks about the "need to arm yourself" and specifically requires a semi-auto AR10 or AR15, although the US Army uses the select-fire M4 carbine, it appears that the OP may be concerned about actions of actions of private citizens. And this is why I inquired about the enemy's rifle caliber, because if the question is the best caliber for citizens waging a guerrilla war against an invading army, it'd be useful to use the same caliber, for obvious reasons.

[LR1955]

Gene,

That's all quite logical, except:

- OP did not say to choose the best rifle/carbine for all future wars. He specified a war. Since we only need to be concerned about selecting for one particular war, we can optimize for the specific conditions, instead of choosing a compromise. That's why the conditions are pertinent.

- Also, there is some question that the discussion even pertains to equipping the US Armed Forces, because the OP said: "So your involved in a fictitious war and need to arm yourself with a semi auto rifle. you may choose between the ar-15 and ar10 platforms." Since OP talks about the "need to arm yourself" and specifically requires a semi-auto AR10 or AR15, although the US Army uses the select-fire M4 carbine, it appears that the OP may be concerned about actions of actions of private citizens. And this is why I inquired about the enemy's rifle caliber, because if the question is the best caliber for citizens waging a guerrilla war against an invading army, it'd be useful to use the same caliber, for obvious reasons.

Stan:

Roger what you are saying aside from the notion that ONE war means ONE set of physical conditions. Western Europe for example includes mountainous terrain, plains, forests, arid areas, farms, cities, villages, towns; snow, rain, fog, sleet, sun; heat and cold; salt and fresh water environments.

The G war stuff is very logical in terms of resupply.

BTW - didn't you ask pretty much the same question a couple of times in the past? Maybe the old forum?

Someone else has asked the SHTF question twice that I can remember on the current forum.

LR55

[stanc]

Stan:

Roger what you are saying aside from the notion that ONE war means ONE set of physical conditions. Western Europe for example includes mountainous terrain, plains, forests, arid areas, farms, cities, villages, towns; snow, rain, fog, sleet, sun; heat and cold; salt and fresh water environments.

You're right, of course. I was thinking of possible wars in very limited geographical areas, where one type of terrain is predominant: Switzerland; Antarctica; jungles of Southeast Asia; etc.

I suppose I was overthinking the matter, though.

The G war stuff is very logical in terms of resupply.

BTW - didn't you ask pretty much the same question a couple of times in the past? Maybe the old forum?

I probably did. Don't recall for sure, but it sounds like something I'd do.

[Klem]

Well, given all the speculation that is pulling this thread all over the place I will state my all-rounder for most situations, within the Op's criteria.

A 'Recce/Recon Rifle'. AR15 in .223 with 16" Lilja and scope. Lower end of the scope's range down around the 2.5 times with upper end whatever the quality brand will give; (e.g. 10* for NF, or even 25* for March).

Not a CQB gun per-se but can do it in a pinch with a laser. CQB length barrels limit the velocity too much if targets present at 200M+. Can shoot with accuracy out to 500M in the fixed position, including night with a clip-on.

6.5Grendel too slow and niche a calibre (6.5G not included in the military re-supply machine). As for the Grendel's extra 25% effective range than .223. More likely targets will present at less than 500M, than more. And if more than 500M hopefully you can approach to at least 500M while in cover-from-view. Hopefully we are also talking about a military community type situation where there are heavier weapons around you to influence the outcome.

...That's of course if a Phased Plasma Rifle is out of the question and it's a, "Hey, just what you see, Pal!" situation.

[cory]

...6.5Grendel too slow and niche a calibre (6.5G not included in the military re-supply machine). As for the Grendel's extra 25% effective range than .223. More likely targets will present at less than 500M, than more. And if more than 500M hopefully you can approach to at least 500M while in cover-from-view. Hopefully we are also talking about a military community type situation where there are heavier weapons around you to influence the outcome...

Sharpshooters in the American militia played a significant role in the revolutionary war with their ability to take precision shots at long distance (this is relative to their time). I wouldn't completely count out the Grendel. However, you're completely right in that resupply could proof a significant problem.

[Drift]

Well you said "war" not just a battle or to two so... Between the founding of the Roman Republic (509BC) and about 1853 I would pick a rifle that could be made, loaded and serviced with available tools; so the Fergeson rifle for the first 2000 or so years of rifle warfare.. Then probably around 1853 the pattern 53 Engfield with the new percussion cap. Switching in around 1874 I would start sloshing my enemy with a Martini. Then on to a Swedish Mauser in 1894. Around 1936 I would switch to semi auto- some version of the M1 Garand /M14/M1a; and use it till today.
If I have to pick some version of the AR platform I guess it would be a Dawoo K1 in 5.56.
I will point out that I know of no war won,-or lost since by the employment of the AR series of rifle by that rifle . But Engfields, Martinis and Mausers have all won or lost wars.

[rabiddawg]

I wouldn't completely count out the Grendel. However, you're completely right in that resupply could proof a significant problem.

Im gonna roll with mygrendel til I run out of ammo. Then I will switch out the barrel&bolt to 223 and keep rockin

[ahillock]

I think the 6.5 Grendel is a great all around type rifle for a SHTF/EOTWAWKI type scenario. Of course, 6.5 Grendel ammo isn't as popular as say 5.56 or 7.62 NATO, but if you already have your stash of ammo, that wouldn't matter. Accurate enough to reach out and touch someone. Enough energy to do the job on most targets. Shorter barrel 14.5" or 16" and you could use it in an urban/cqc type scenario with the right ammo. Light system (rifle + ammo) so if you need to be on the move, you won't be wasting excess energy carrying your weapon system.

[stanc]

Since the OP never saw fit to elaborate or answer follow-on questions, I'll go with the following choices.

To equip an infantry squad:

- Squad Marksman Rifle (6.5 Grendel)
- Infantry Carbine (6.5 Grendel)
- Infantry Automatic Rifle (6.5 Grendel)

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

Since the OP never saw fit to elaborate or answer follow-on questions, . . .

May I assume that body armor is allowed ---

[LRRPF52]

[Hoser1]

Going old school, M1 Garand!!! Just saying!!

[bwaites]

What is that drum? Caliber?

[LRRPF52]

Ultimax 100 LMG, one of Jim Sullivan's designs. 5.56 NATO with 100rd drum, very light LMG in the 11-12lb region, constant recoil operating principle.

It would be sick in 6.5 Grendel. It's not belt-fed.

[stanc]

May I assume that body armor is allowed ---

I don't see why not. The OP didn't say it was not allowed.

However, he did limit the choice of platforms to the AR10 and AR15...