POLL: Type 1 or Type 2

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  • rabiddawg
    Chieftain
    • Feb 2013
    • 1664

    #16
    Originally posted by Digitalfalcon View Post
    Rabiddawg, you say stick with Precision Firearms......
    Here is from there site:
    "Description
    Complete 6.5 Grendel bolt by Precision Firearms made to our specifications. 9310 steel, Shot peened and hardened. Precision Turned to Prefection, just like we ordered. Available in Phalanx (Black Nitride) or Super Match (Nickel Boron).

    These are the less Common .125 Bolt face. Will also work with 7.62x39."

    But my understanding is the 6.5 Grendel approved by saami and Bill Alexander had a .136 bolt face
    Correct, .136 is the spec for a 6.5 Grendel.

    Keep in mind, PF does more than just Grendel and sells parts for many other rounds. I assure you all of mine are .136 verified by me
    Knowing everthing isnt as important as knowing where to find it.

    Mark Twain

    http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...2-Yd-Whitetail

    Comment

    • Digitalfalcon
      Bloodstained
      • May 2016
      • 28

      #17
      Originally posted by rabiddawg View Post
      I'm sorry if I/we come across as touchy but here is why (at least for me)

      This cartridge very quickly became my favorite round to shoot. I have a lot invested in guns and reloading components for it. If factory ammo would stay around 17-18 bucks per box I probably wouldn't reload but I digress.

      I want everyone to have as many Grendels as possible. This helps us all.

      Back before my time they use to resize x39 brass because Grendel brass and ammo was hard to find. No so anymore.

      Because the cases are similar guys started running x39 bolts in Grendel guns, it didn't help that Grendel bolts (.136) were (and can be) hard to get. That is why companies started head spacing barrels to the .125 bolt. They also came up with the bastardized chambers to avoid Bill A's patent. Those guilty of this should have done like les Baer and called it something else but nooooo. Why would black whole want to take responsibility for something that may not work as well as the one that had tons of money, research and development done?

      Now imagine you are in a group and the Grendel comes up and some guy says " I would never choose that one because the bolts break or it won't run or it ain't accurate etc. etc. then come to find out he is referring to some thing that is NOT a Grendel after all. And to top it off the company that made the barrel and or bolt said "sorry it must be an ammo problem" or "we didn't actually cut a saami chamber but rather one that (we think) is better", " ship it back to us ( at your expense) and we will "scrape" the throat.

      These are just some of the topics that repeatedly come up on this site and around the camp fire and it's just a shame that the bolt and chamber questions have to clarfied.

      Good luck with your search
      Rabiddawg, Thank you for sharing that. I completely understand what your saying. This thread, and it's subsequent posts, is turning out to be very helpful and clearing up some of the gray area in my own searching.

      Comment

      • IceAxe
        Warrior
        • Jan 2014
        • 168

        #18
        [QUOTE=May I ask why you opted for the Type I bolt? my interest in piqued.[/QUOTE]

        It was my personal preference in wanting to leave or have more material (steel) in the bolt. I recognize 0.011" may not make much difference but would rather give up the material at the extractor claw. I've never had bolt or extractor fail so I doubt it matters. I love both my BHW 6.5LBC and PF Krieger 6.5Grendel, they both shoot better than me.
        Last edited by IceAxe; 01-28-2017, 03:12 PM. Reason: typo

        Comment

        • rabiddawg
          Chieftain
          • Feb 2013
          • 1664

          #19
          One more thing and I will get off my rant.

          If I start using the other nomenclature then I feel I have given in to their little ploy.
          Knowing everthing isnt as important as knowing where to find it.

          Mark Twain

          http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...2-Yd-Whitetail

          Comment

          • bwaites
            Moderator
            • Mar 2011
            • 4445

            #20
            The problem is that there are more things than the bolt where Type I or Type II is used.

            Initially, Type I (.125) and Type II (.136) were used by Black Hole Weaponry to distinguish between the 2 bolts. They would cut the chamber to use whichever bolt was available. They were using a LBC 264 chamber.

            Then Satern decided to throw another piece in the works and developed a Grendel II chamber. So now we had Type I and Type II bolts, and a Grendel II chamber. That led people to start calling the SAAMI chamber (original) the Grendel I and the chamber from Satern the Grendel II.

            Of course new people, not knowing the history, then started talking about Grendel I and Grendel II bolts, assuming that the chambers went with the bolts. (They didn't, Satern always used the .136 bolts to my knowledge).

            So now there were all kinds of I's and II's floating around and lots of new people didn't even know they were confusing the descriptions of the bolts with the names of the chambers.

            Then other people started chambering guns with the SAAMI type chamber, but set up to use the .125 bolt!

            So it became a serious SNAFU as the military nomenclature would say!

            The Grendel SAAMI chamber uses a .136 bolt.

            Other Variants may use either bolt, or even both, because barrel makers will cut them to headspace with either bolt depth face. This sucks, because inevitably, someone is going to be injured due to the confusion!
            Last edited by bwaites; 05-16-2016, 09:40 PM.

            Comment

            • Digitalfalcon
              Bloodstained
              • May 2016
              • 28

              #21
              It's all becoming clearer yet somehow still confusing........
              It's too bad MFG's havent got on the same page since the round became official.
              I'm really suprised at the number of setups being sold with the .125. How much harder can it be to make the .136......

              Comment

              • LRRPF52
                Super Moderator
                • Sep 2014
                • 8569

                #22
                You need to add:

                "I have a 6.5 Grendel SAAMI chamber with a Grendel bolt, which is neither a Type I nor Type II, and predates these terms by many years."

                I have several like this. All have a .136" bolt face depth, with a longer bolt, and SAAMI chambers. I actually have one barrel with a "guess what" chamber that I am trying to decide what to do with.

                It has never broken under an inch for 5rd groups. All the other barrels I have from that company have SAAMI chambers, and shoot 5rds into sub-1/2 MOA to .6 MOA at 100yds, sub MOA at 1000yds.
                NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                www.AR15buildbox.com

                Comment

                • devildogandboy
                  Warrior
                  • Sep 2015
                  • 187

                  #23
                  i have the type 1 and it shoots well for me. i have been playing around mostly with the hornady 120gr a-max's and cfe223.

                  Bruce
                  HOLY CRAP, DID YOU SEE THAT????????

                  Comment

                  • schrödinger's cat
                    Bloodstained
                    • Dec 2015
                    • 84

                    #24
                    I have a type 1 BHW that I expect to be an exceptional shooter. If I manage to scratch together the money I may also buy the Faxon group buy barrel and I'll be able to compare.

                    Comment

                    • mdewitt71
                      Warrior
                      • Dec 2016
                      • 681

                      #25
                      good thread.....lots of info.
                      ― George Orwell

                      Comment

                      • 4719dave
                        Unwashed
                        • Dec 2016
                        • 15

                        #26
                        well ,THANKS I've learned a bunch from this im also new too the 6.5 1st one of these in the safe far from the 1st one lol ..

                        Comment

                        • matkal
                          Bloodstained
                          • May 2014
                          • 40

                          #27


                          This one says type 2 with a SAAMI chamber. ???
                          Someone please explain that.

                          Put me in the confused column here.

                          Comment

                          • A5BLASTER
                            Chieftain
                            • Mar 2015
                            • 6192

                            #28
                            Odions use of the saying type 2 infers to the bolt, what they mean is they use a .136 bolt and not the .125 bolt with the sammi chamber.

                            So yes sammi and .136 bolt is what you want and that's what they are selling in that package.

                            But I can understand the confusion so many names for different parts.

                            This is what to look for are listen for when asking a company what they are useing.

                            Sammi spec chamber and bolt or sammi spec chamber and type 2 bolt.

                            Again the type 2 should be referring to the bolt face depth not the chamber or throat.

                            So sammi spec chamber and bolt combo or sammi spec chamber and type 2 bolt is how it should be listed.

                            I hope this helps you sir.

                            Off the top of my head here is the company's that sell the sammi chamber and correct bolt,

                            AA,JP,PF,Odion, there may be others but I can't think of them right off hand at the moment.

                            Again I hope this info helps you sir and it's is correct to the best of my knowledge.

                            Comment

                            • matkal
                              Bloodstained
                              • May 2014
                              • 40

                              #29
                              Originally posted by A5BLASTER View Post
                              Odions use of the saying type 2 infers to the bolt, what they mean is they use a .136 bolt and not the .125 bolt with the sammi chamber.

                              So yes sammi and .136 bolt is what you want and that's what they are selling in that package.

                              But I can understand the confusion so many names for different parts.

                              This is what to look for are listen for when asking a company what they are useing.

                              Sammi spec chamber and bolt or sammi spec chamber and type 2 bolt.

                              Again the type 2 should be referring to the bolt face depth not the chamber or throat.

                              So sammi spec chamber and bolt combo or sammi spec chamber and type 2 bolt is how it should be listed.

                              I hope this helps you sir.

                              Off the top of my head here is the company's that sell the sammi chamber and correct bolt,

                              AA,JP,PF,Odion, there may be others but I can't think of them right off hand at the moment.

                              Again I hope this info helps you sir and it's is correct to the best of my knowledge.
                              Thank you so much.

                              Comment

                              • Texas
                                Chieftain
                                • Jun 2016
                                • 1230

                                #30
                                Originally posted by rabiddawg View Post
                                I have 6.5 Grendel. The exact one Bill Alexander developed and got approved by saami.
                                Before the 6.5 Grendel SAAMI there was a 6.5 Grendel (Bill Alexander proprietary) made by Sabre Defence, LLC (Nashville, Tn) that had different chamber specs than the 6.5 SAAMI. Bill Alexander shipped them a different set of reamers to resolve some issues, so I am assuming that LFRP55 has one of those. If my memory serves me correctly, the problem was in the throat and freebore of the chamber (too short). The bolt face was always .136 depth. The stainless barrels had a 1:9 twist and the CMV had a 1:7.5 twist with a few exceptions.

                                While there is a clear preference for the .136 bolt in this cadre, it would be very interesting to know how many have experienced bolt failures with the .136 bolt and with the .125 bolt. I have both, and there does not appear to be an accuracy difference between the rifles I have based upon bolt. Also it would be interesting to know the bolt failures that were a result of using S7 steel vs, 8620, vs 9310, vs 158 carpenter, vs something other steel. How many failures were due to improper heat treating? How many failures were due to micro-fractures created by excessive powder charges? The answer to these questions would show a clear reason for selecting one over the other.

                                It is my understanding the .136 was actually developed for the .50 BEOWULF which has extraction issues the 6.5 Grendel does not have. Since the bolt was already developed, it was a natural choice for the 6.5 Grendel.
                                Last edited by Texas; 01-28-2017, 06:37 PM.

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