Rumor- PRVI dropping their Grendel loads?

[nimitzman]

PPU brass metallurgy better than Hornady?

I have yet to lose a Hornady case to splits. I have lost several PPU cases just from re-sizing once-fired. They are soft, with a bad reputation for bulging up in the web area like a belted magnum.

I can send you some cracked hornady. have not reloaded the ppu. was not accurate at all. only fired 18 out of 500. I habe privi brass from 1990 for my 6.5x55 that has been reloaded close to 10 times. try that with remington or hornady. supposedly i have an in spec chamber as it came from aa. everything i have fired in it has flattened and cratered primers. including aa 120 ballistictip factory ammo the hornady 123 a max. the headstamps are obscured after 2 firings. I'm ready to move on to other projects with that being said. i returned this upper once for other issues.

[rickOshay]

Lapua Brass

Just to add to the confusing story, I saw some generalizations about Lapua brass being OK regarding headspace, but no data was provided.

So I have a box of new Lapua Brass and thought I'd check.



First 10 cases I pulled out of the box measured 1.204 - 1.210"

So.........

[nimitzman]

Piling on... I ran Hornady brass through at lest 14 reloads before my first case failure ...

Others have done a lot better.

based on my experience, i find that hard to believe. the condition of my ejected brass afttarget rifleser only 2 firings wouldnt warrant more reloadings due to dents. the hornady shows cracks also.my upper had issues with bullets from the factory loads sticking in the throat. aa 120 bt . i assumed the throat was short. I coudnt find a finish reamer or headspace gauges in 2012. So i returned it to aa. Ian called me to say they couldnt find a problem but after consulting with Bill they decided to fire a couple hundred rds to break it in. when i got it back that problem was solved. I wonder if aa has a reamer of their own?? I have some experience barreling and chambering target rifles. Every ammo i have fired has flattened and cratered primers. i wonder where my headspace is here?

[LR1955]

based on my experience, i find that hard to believe. the condition of my ejected brass afttarget rifleser only 2 firings wouldnt warrant more reloadings due to dents. the hornady shows cracks also.my upper had issues with bullets from the factory loads sticking in the throat. aa 120 bt . i assumed the throat was short. I coudnt find a finish reamer or headspace gauges in 2012. So i returned it to aa. Ian called me to say they couldnt find a problem but after consulting with Bill they decided to fire a couple hundred rds to break it in. when i got it back that problem was solved. I wonder if aa has a reamer of their own?? I have some experience barreling and chambering target rifles. Every ammo i have fired has flattened and cratered primers. i wonder where my headspace is here?

NM:

What sizing die and lube are you using?

LR55

[nimitzman]

Hornady one shot case lube hornady full length die set #546291

[rabiddawg]

Nimitzman, how about starting a thread and posting some pics of your fired casings. These guys are wonderful trouble shooters on these things.

I have read that some primer flattening is normal in gas guns.

[nimitzman]

Nimitzman, how about starting a thread and posting some pics of your fired casings. These guys are wonderful trouble shooters on these things.

I have read that some primer flattening is normal in gas guns.

thanks for your interest. i would but dont have a good camera for close ups.

[gmar]

Does anyone know what the flat rate they're offering if you don't have a receipt?

[Rickc]

based on my experience, i find that hard to believe. the condition of my ejected brass afttarget rifleser only 2 firings wouldnt warrant more reloadings due to dents. the hornady shows cracks also.my upper had issues with bullets from the factory loads sticking in the throat. aa 120 bt . i assumed the throat was short. I coudnt find a finish reamer or headspace gauges in 2012. So i returned it to aa. Ian called me to say they couldnt find a problem but after consulting with Bill they decided to fire a couple hundred rds to break it in. when i got it back that problem was solved. I wonder if aa has a reamer of their own?? I have some experience barreling and chambering target rifles. Every ammo i have fired has flattened and cratered primers. i wonder where my headspace is here?

Very easy to measure with an inexpensive tool. Easy to compare new or sized brass with your fired brass too

If you want your brass to last then you measure your fired brass and set your sizing die up to just bump the shoulder back 0.003 to 0.005. Improves accuracy too!

http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gauge-5-bushing-set-with-comparator?cm_vc=ProductFinding&cm_mmc=ps_google-_-google-_-GS_Tools_Jigs_Fixtures_Beta_G-_-hornady%20headspace%20gauge&gclid=Cj0KEQjwjem-BRC_isGJlJ-0h-MBEiQAbCimWEKdwDBnWs8eS9N4ftooevqeHtaNZAlx_TjQQnY2nsoaAljZ8P8HAQ

[Rickc]

Those tables prompted me to take a quick look at the SAAMI and CIP specifications links at http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...endel-Drawings. Differences in he definitions may have caused the problem we are debating.

I would like to pursue in proper detail but I don't have the time right now so provided the link below so someone might be able to ferret through the dimensions.

It appears that CIP does not call out a datum for headspace but instead uses the junctions at the shoulder and neck to define body length. My quick check suggested that there continue to be issues with the CIP definition. For example, it looks like the maximum allowable cartridge won't fit in a minimum chamber.

The CIP chamber body also appears to be somewhat shorter than the SAAMI chamber. That could possibly explain the PPU body lengths.

We can take our conclusions to Hornady (the sponsor of the SAAMI Grendel entry) and to SAAMI to request an examination by both CIP and SAAMI to better harmonize the two definitions.

One thing I would like to add is the method used by most of.us to measure headspace (hornady headspace gauge) is imprecise at best. Now that gauge is very repeatable for you but the data is useless for.someone using another gauge. It depends so much on where the gauge contacts the shoulder.

What I have found is I don't worry about headspace until I have fully Fireformed brass. Obviously the brass in the table above is not fully Fireformed or they would be consistent. Then I measure with the headspace gauge and then I set my reloading.die up to just.bump that shoulder back about .003.

[kmon]

After fireforming brass it is sized to your chamber so inconsistencies in new brass are lost for measurement purposes. Measuring new brass is the only way to detect brass being out of spec.

Now what was brought up is the difference between SAAMI and CIP specification for headspace is another matter.

[Rickc]

After fireforming brass it is sized to your chamber so inconsistencies in new brass are lost for measurement purposes. Measuring new brass is the only way to detect brass being out of spec.

Now what was brought up is the difference between SAAMI and CIP specification for headspace is another matter.

What spec?

What chamber dimension?

What difference does it make after your brass is Fireformed to your chamber?

[kmon]

What spec? SAAMI and CIP

What chamber dimension? SAAMI and CIP

What difference does it make after your brass is Fireformed to your chamber? If you are using fireformed brass you are measuring your chamber not the factory ammo/brass

Problems can occur if brass is too small for the chamber even to the point of case head separation or blowout, blown primers can also be a result.


Have you ever looked at SAAMI or CIP specifications? BFT provided a copy of them on a thread in this forum, here is a link

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?8080-Official-SAAMI-and-CIP-6.5-Grendel-Drawings

[Rickc]

Problems can occur if brass is too small for the chamber even to the point of case head separation or blowout, blown primers can also be a result.


Have you ever looked at SAAMI or CIP specifications? BFT provided a copy of them on a thread in this forum, here is a link
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...endel-Drawings

Oh I looked. Quite a difference

Which spec.was the ammo made under?

Which spec was the chamber reamer made For?

Do you know what your chamber dimensions really are?

Do you check the ammo you buy to make sure it is correct for.your chamber?

[JASmith]

...Do you check the ammo you buy to make sure it is correct for.your chamber?

The SAAMI and CIP processes are designed to assure that ammunition marked for one cartridge operates safely and reliably in rifles stamped with that name.

That process is so effective that the obsessive compulsive are the only ones making that kind of check -- unless there is reason for concern.

The PRVI recall has raised that concern, so a lot of us are working to understand the issue.