Rguns lower for the Barrier Defense upper arrives tomorrow.

[diddlyv]

My FFL should receive my lower tomorrow, the AR MOD Leupold arrives thursday, with luck should hit the range early friday and test my 120 GMX and 123 SST Lever loads.

Will render range report and post impressions of the lower quality fit finish and trigger as well as the Optics and accuracy of the loads and rifle.

[diddlyv]

Received the Rguns lower today. The trigger almost feels like a two stage about 1/16 of gritty travel then it breaks. A couple spritzes with Q maxx black diamond got rid of the gritty feel, still don't like the travel. I have another stock trigger, I may try that, or get a decent match trigger like my rock river 2 stage.

The Rguns lower fit on to the Barrier Defense upper but there is a bit of wobble between the upper and lower. Nothing a business card stock shim will not fix. I may try shooting groups without shimming just to see how well the rifle will shoot without the wobble taken out.

Getting a green upper from where ever, a Green Keymod fore end from some other place, the Rguns lower and IMI Defense stock and grip results in 4 different shades of green. Purely cosmetic and not necessarily a bad thing

Put a pic in photo bucket

http://s1351.photobucket.com/user/danieldtd1/media/Grendel_zpslks9qiu8.jpeg.html?sort=3&o=0

I am not smart enough to figure out how to make my picture small enough to upload

[VASCAR2]

I copied your IMG code into my narrative should make your link hot and show picture.

[Armed & Hammered]

Tagging.

Please post a follow up after a trip to the range. I've been considering buying one of their uppers.

[diddlyv]

Thanks vascar. Hope to get to range either tomorrow or friday Armed & Hammered will render a report. If all works will post groups and velocities for the loads

[diddlyv]

Pre range trip update. The GMX bullets were hitting the rifling at 2.247 at 2.235 they do not, I will have to come of the dime for the seating depth col guage and the inserts, shell casing etc.. The 123 SST do not seem to be hitting the rifling but were also sticking in the chamber. The chamber seems to be tight near the shoulder. I also recleaned the chamber and notices a few flecks of metal on the patch, could be left over chips or something. I decided to do an experiment. Resized a piece of new hornady brass. Put in chamber and closed the bolt. Was difficult to extract. Re adjusted die to make sure shell holder made contact with sizing die with case in. This seems to fix the problem in that the newly resized piece of brass extracted. I still get a little shine where the shoulder starts down from the major diameter vs at the case neck end of the shoulder. On some of the loaded ammo I was getting shine from the point of the shoulder towards the rim approx 3/8 inches. It will be interesting to see if the problem goes away once the new brass has fire formed to the chamber. When I initially sized the new brass when I started I was not using mica on the necks. Wonder if expander ball was pulling out the shoulder. I did use mica on both the test pieces of brass tonight.
Also interesting is the rather large difference in OAL with the same seating die setting between the 123 SST and the 120 GMX. (I am using the Amax seating stem in my seating die)

[VASCAR2]

The .264/6.5 bullets lengths very a lot between the different available bullets. The 95 grain V-Max need to be seated very deep. The nose and bullet length vary a few thousandths even out of the same box of one hundred for most .264/6.5 bullets. I get more erratic lengths with my 6.5 Grendel reloads than I do with my pistol ammo. I load my rifle ammo on a single stage press so I check the overall length of my loaded ammo. I bought an adapter I can put on my calipers where I can measure off the ogive which is more consistent than the tip of the bullet. I'm more concearned about 100% function than that tiny increase in accuracy. I watch my overall length to ensure it is shorter than 2.260 so my ammo will not hang up in my mags.

I bought a Sheridan case guage for the 6.5 Grendel from Alexander Arms. The case guage allows me to quickly check my cases and loaded ammo as is duplicates a SAAMI chamber. I've been using Dillon case lube with excellent results. Setting your dies is critical with the 6.5 Grendel. If your die is to high the shoulder is not pushed back far enough. To deep and no lube you can crush the case. I usually lube inside the neck of a few cases. With the 6.5 Grendel it helps to use the same brand of shell holder as your dies. Some forum members have had to take a couple thousandths off their shell holder to get adequate set back on the shoulder.

[diddlyv]

The trip to the range today was mostly a bust. I was trying to solve the wrong problem to some degree. I really do not like the trigger on the Rguns lower, it is getting better with use. I forg.ot to tighten the nuts that hold the scope mount on to the rail so shot groups were a lot like rat s*** in a dresser drawer. Last night I seated some of the bullets probably .010 too deep trying to fix the difficult extraction. The 31.4 grains of Lever seems a little hot definite ejector marking and some cratering of primer, not particularly flat but starting to push metal up around the nose of firing pin.(WSR primers) Perhaps the 100 degree weather in Phoenix is not appropriate for that powder charge. It may well make a good winter load. On my way home from the range stopped at cabelas and bought some factory 123 SST. Those rounds chambered just fine and extracted no problem. Think the real problem is the new brass is pretty close to max length. I was not putting any crimp at all am thinking the neck of case was really the part that was getting stuck along with the area just behind the shoulder. I still see some marking of the 1st 3/8 or so behind the shoulder. Wondering if there might be tool marks in the chamber. Perhaps some JB on a patch and a chamber brush hooked to a drill might polish the chamber a bit. I am reluctant to do that.

I resized all the brass I shot, it really grew measured about 1.525 or a tad longer after resizing. Trimed back to 1.510 -0 plus .001.
l loaded 15 rounds of new brass with OAL in the 2.240 to 2.245 length range with a hint of a crimp. All chamber and extract ok. Loaded some of the resized once fired, being trimmed the neck was not long enough to get the crimp. Those rounds chambered just fine and extracted ok as well. I am guessing the neck on the BD barrel is close to minimum spec.

Tomorrow I will drag the lead sled out to the range to eliminate as much human error as I can. I do like the scope, did not turn on the fire dot today. Now that I have consistent seating depths and what should be safe loads at 31.0 and 31.2 of LVR we shall see. The nuts on the scope mount are tight. I just need to fix the loose nut behind the butt plate. Or perhaps just adjust my head space and timing. I am really hoping this rifle will be a shooter. I bought a can of CFE 223 yesterday paid 5 bucks more than Cabelas was asking, but it is hard to buy powders not on the shelf. I also have AA2520 and Varget to try in quest for a reasonably fast extremely accurate load.

[diddlyv]

OK hit the range with factory ammo and consistently seated bullets. All groups outside to outside
Factory 123 SST
ES 45 AVE 2439
2429
2437
2433
2421
2437
2449
2442
2466

Shot 3 7/8 at one hundred and 4 inches at 200

123 SST with 31.0 grains LVR new brass
2503 Ave es 28
2512
2494
2515
Shoot 3 3/16

31.2 Once fired
2510 es 12
2405
2510
2509
2516
Shot 2 1/8 in at 100

31.2 LVR New Brass
2499 ES 13
2499
2492
2499
2505
Shot 31/4 at one hundred

120 GMX
31.2 LVR
2463 AVE es 5
2463
2460
2464
2465

This load must have shot considerably higher than the 123 as I did not hit the target at 200 was aiming at a tgt 6 inches below top of frame.
Liking the consistency of velocity will try this load with larger sample at 100 to get on paper and again at 200. The 31.2 load under the 123 SST seems to be also very consistent. May try .1 grain over and under and play with the seating depth to see if I can get better group.

More rounds thru the barrel may improve overall accuracy. Seem to be getting pretty good velocities with no pressure signs out of the 16 inch barrel. The factory factory loads are shooting nearly 100 fps faster than the 16 inch barrel velocities posted on the Hornady site. The trigger is improving but I may well swap it out with another stock trigger I have laying around the house.

I also think I will put a block or something in the lead sled to lift the pistol grip off the rails. Thinking the pistol grip touching the rails may induce weirdness in the recoiling that may be adding to the dispersal of the impact points.
I still have a whole lot more fun and excitement to have working on seating depth, minor tweaking of powder charge, using different powders and primers in search of the mythical 1/4 min group before I write off this upper. I need to shim between the upper and lower. A business card is a bit thick and the rear pin needs to be tapped in and out. Just now tried a small square cut out of today's target. Wobble between upper and lower is gone and pin goes in and out easily. That may well help the groups. We shall see.

As an aside, took Vascar's recommendation and picked up a Hornady Shell Holder today when I got 1000 WSR and CCI SR Primers

[diddlyv]

Another trip to the range. Shot some of the wolf steel case. About 3.5 inches at 100. My 123 SST load shot 2.5 inches today, that is about an inch better than the last trip. I had the paper shim in the receiver to take out the wobble and made sure the pistol grip was not in contact with the lead sled.

The wolf shot terrible at 200.
The Hornady 123 SST factory shot 7.5 inch at 200 with 3 rounds right at 2 inches.

I need to tweak the loads, I do not like the Rguns Trigger, think I may try the grendel upper on my Anderson Lower with the RR 4.5 Lb match 2 stage.

The rifle does not like the 120 GMX shot about 8 inches at 100 for 5 rounds. My 6.5 creedmore may like them more.

[A5BLASTER]

Good report sir, looks like your getting her tuned in.

I would try a better trigger with a lighter pull, I had a RRA NM in my lower at first and liked it alot but decided to give the SSA-E a try and wow it is so much smoother and makes grouping much easyer then the RRA triggers.

[kmon]

Good report sir, looks like your getting her tuned in.

I would try a better trigger with a lighter pull, I had a RRA NM in my lower at first and liked it alot but decided to give the SSA-E a try and wow it is so much smoother and makes grouping much easyer then the RRA triggers.

Really like the SSA-E trigger and can easily see that happening. I have a spikes lower that now wears a Timney 3lb trigger and it is good but after shooting an SSA I wish I had gone that route even though the swap to the Timney cut group sizes in half.

[sneaky one]

Always, always improve your trigger setup. Don't use the old school military grade setup. It was designed for soldiers , in a combat situation. It's bad news for target groups .


How the Nam vets made it thru basic- it's beyond me man. Get a Cmc - Chip Mcormic cassette unit - nothing to do but put two pins in- no springs, etc to deal with.

Breaks clean, awesome.

Also---- Bill Springfield triggers. Send him your Trigger Group , & he tweaks it to mimic a high dollar setup for 40--60$

I have 1 of his oooopsie, setups here. It is 1.25- 1.75 lbs. It went F auto the first time I tried it- on the last 2 rounds. I installed a 1 lb. stronger spring- haven't shot it yet.

We were not sure if it was an ammo issue- or the trigger setup. Anyone want to buy this,,, run the risk that it was an ammo fluke,,,, or ????? I'll give it up for a decent price.

[diddlyv]

Interesting, perhaps at 1.25 - 1.75 what really happened is the recoil allowed the trigger to reset and at that light of pull there was still enough pressure on the trigger to set it off and at 1 lb heavier you don't keep enough tension on the trigger to set it off during follow through.
When I was in high school a buddy of mine had perfected a technique of holding his M1 Garrand that made it seem like full auto. The trigger on that rifle was stock and did not malfunction, Dave just let it move far enough in recoil to reset.

Thanks for the recommendation on Bill Springfield

I did just order a 3.5 lb RR Varmit / match trigger for $86 shipped. I am planning on building another Grendel with a 20 inch barrel and may well have Bill rework one of my stock triggers to something in the 3 or 4 lb range.

As to how I made it thru basic back in the day, qualified with the M-14. I must admit I had done really well at field fire but think I may have developed a bit of a flinch by the time we did record fire. I missed expert by a few targets and settled for sharpshooter. Subsequently qualified expert numerous times with the M-16 and M-16 A1. Left the Army in 1987 the A2 with the round hand guard and the new style rear sight had not been fielded to the 5th Mech Inf Div at Ft Polk

[RicosRevenge]

sneaky, do you know if you accidentally sweet-spotted the trigger and bounced it? That would indicate that the trigger wasn't trapped properly during reset and technically it "could" happen on a "safe" trigger if the trigger was somehow held in the "sweet spot" like diddly's HS buddy figured out. However, if the hammer is slipping past the disconnect due to over working/polishing; that is a big issue and a runaway mag dump is obviously extremely dangerous. I can't believe that Bill would let an un-safe trigger (oopsie or not) out of his possession. It may be worth a phone call to him to see if he would consider swapping it out.

diddly, based on the above resume - you can shoot so if factory ammo is shooting 7.5" at 100 and your best load is at 3.5" - my guess is that it won't matter what powder or trigger you try. I know you said in another thread that you bought the upper off GB. What do you know about it? Barrel brand? Twist Rate? Did you check the barrel fit? Something is dramatically wrong with the upper.