Serbia adopting 6.5 Grendel as main military cartridge

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  • CavityBackBullets
    Bloodstained
    • Nov 2016
    • 98

    #91
    Interesting that they find a shorter, lighter, faster, lower BC bullet more suited to military/police use.

    Comment

    • BluntForceTrauma
      Administrator
      • Feb 2011
      • 3897

      #92
      Originally posted by CavityBackBullets View Post
      Interesting that they find a shorter, lighter, faster, lower BC bullet more suited to military/police use.
      Robert, the right solution is the right solution, although I don't know if going shorter than, oh, 1.25" is necessary. And, as you know, the nose needs to be the very best hybrid Von Karman ogive they can muster.

      But you are essentially correct, and I was proposing a lighter solution from 2014 and your favorite LRRPF52 from 2013, or earlier, and Sneaky here from when he first joined in 2009.

      Anyway, gonna be interesting to follow what the Serbs are doing.
      :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

      :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

      Comment

      • BluntForceTrauma
        Administrator
        • Feb 2011
        • 3897

        #93
        Stan, looks like the ogive in the PPU 110 FMJ is a rather unimaginative standard tangent ogive. I'm not really expecting anything advanced from the Serbs here, but once you create the correct bullet die, it doesn't take any more energy to swage it optimally as opposed to what they've "always done."

        I tend to agree with you that those figures are from a 20" barrel. To get those speeds from a 16" at about 50,000 psi or less, they'd have to do some serious load development research.
        :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

        :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

        Comment

        • stanc
          Banned
          • Apr 2011
          • 3430

          #94
          Originally posted by BluntForceTrauma View Post
          Robert, the right solution is the right solution, although I don't know if going shorter than, oh, 1.25" is necessary.
          It remains to be seen if the 93-grain bullet OAL is actually shorter than, say, the PPU 110-grain FMJ.
          Cannelure-to-tip length is almost certainly unchanged, but it's possible that the base is shortened.
          Think similar to the difference between the 7N22 (below, left) and 7N24 projectiles (below, right).


          Originally posted by BluntForceTrauma View Post
          And, as you know, the nose needs to be the very best hybrid Von Karman ogive they can muster.
          Um, you're conflating how you think it should be, with how the Serbian army thinks it should be.

          Comment

          • BluntForceTrauma
            Administrator
            • Feb 2011
            • 3897

            #95
            My expectations are, most assuredly, quite low. . . .
            :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

            :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

            Comment

            • VASCAR2
              Chieftain
              • Mar 2011
              • 6219

              #96
              The 110 grain FMJ PPU bullet I recovered from water testing had a flattened nose and believe the design is similar to the hollow nose 5.45x39 7N6 FMJ. With the steel penetrator I’d be surprised if the profile is much different than the 110 grain FMJ bullet PPU imported. I just hope Serbia adopts a brass cased cartridge with small rifle primers and better quality brass. My 16” Faxon group buy barrel is accurate with 120 grain HP BT PPU bullet. I hope Prvi Partizan resumes importation of 6.5 Grenel ammo again.

              Comment

              • zcostilla
                Warrior
                • Aug 2017
                • 110

                #97
                Originally posted by GSPHunter View Post
                That stock looks awful......There is no way a person is going to get any kind of proper cheek weld....Maybe more like a under chin weld :-)
                Like this guy

                Image.png
                -Zac

                Husband, Father, Veteran. Grateful for my redemption.

                Comment

                • VASCAR2
                  Chieftain
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 6219

                  #98
                  The Serbs need a stock like on the Galil ace where there is a snap on cheek riser for scope use. No scope the riser snaps right off.

                  Comment

                  • stanc
                    Banned
                    • Apr 2011
                    • 3430

                    #99
                    Originally posted by VASCAR2 View Post
                    The Serbs need a stock like on the Galil ace where there is a snap on cheek riser for scope use.
                    I don't see why you think there is any need for a different stock.
                    The stock that's on the M17 looks quite compatible with scope use.

                    Comment

                    • VASCAR2
                      Chieftain
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 6219

                      Your right Stan I forgot they changed the stock from the picture posted above on the previous test rifle.

                      Comment

                      • stanc
                        Banned
                        • Apr 2011
                        • 3430

                        As a result of searching for more recent info on this subject, a thought occurred to me.
                        PPU announced the recall of 6.5 Grendel ammo in September or October of last year.


                        This video shows the Serbian army was then using PPU commercial 6.5 Grendel ammo.
                        See 4:11-4:18 and 6:03-6:26



                        I can't help but wonder if there was actually no problem with the ammo, and the real reason for the recall was to fill a supply shortfall (for weapons test and evaluation) until military loads could be developed and enter the inventory?

                        Was the PPU 6.5 Grendel ammo recall conspiracy or coincidence?

                        Comment

                        • VASCAR2
                          Chieftain
                          • Mar 2011
                          • 6219

                          The same thought crossed my mind. The PPU weak brass cased 6.5 Grendel ammo wasn’t well suited for the American market because of freguent hand loaders. I think there were some quality control issues with the PPU 6.5 Grendel which might be exasperated by all the different conditions and barrel/bolt configurations.

                          Pull the PPU 6.5 Grendel ammo off the US market use it in an AK gas piston system with the same chamber configuration under controlled conditions. No bad PR from 6.5 Grendel ammo on US market but Company not taking a huge loss. The fact that Wolf has not pulled their lots of PPU manufactured 120 grain HP BT/MPT leads me to believe PPU pulled their 6.5 G ammo to use for testing till they Standardized on new spec and manufacturing of military contract 6.5X39 Grendel ammo.

                          I didn’t return my recalled PPU ammo. I had already shot ammo out of each of the different lots with no problems. I bought my PPU 6.5 Grendel very cheap from PSA and PPU didn’t have any ammo in stock I wanted. The PPU 6.5 Grendel 120 grain BTHP shoots really good out of my Faxon group buy 16” barrel. I understand the risk but that was my decision.
                          Last edited by VASCAR2; 11-24-2017, 01:11 PM.

                          Comment

                          • stanc
                            Banned
                            • Apr 2011
                            • 3430

                            Hadn't seen any news on this topic since late last year, so I went searching and found this Serbian video that was posted three months ago.



                            "The Army of Serbia got 740 rifles from the Belgian production SCAR-L, which completed the project of equipping a special brigade of 1,500 soldiers. It is part of the Serbian Army's equipping program launched two years ago with the aim of improving its operational and functional capabilities."

                            Not sure if this means Serbia has dropped the idea of going with the domestic M17 rifle in 6.5 Grendel, in favor of the FN SCAR in 5.56mm?

                            Comment

                            • LRRPF52
                              Super Moderator
                              • Sep 2014
                              • 8569

                              Sounds like something for the Specijalna brigada, rather than their regular army units.

                              Specijalna brigada has Anti-terrorist, Airborne, Reconnaissance, and Maritime units under it for more commando-type mission sets.

                              They've done some joint training and exchanges with Croats, Greeks, Romanis, Bulgarians, Bosnian-Herzogovinans, and Turks.

                              Sounds like they wanted a more modern modular assault rifle system than the older Kalashnikov-based rifles that are basically obsolete in the 21st century, without full redesign for interface with modern accessories.
                              NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                              CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                              6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                              www.AR15buildbox.com

                              Comment

                              • stanc
                                Banned
                                • Apr 2011
                                • 3430

                                Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
                                Sounds like something for the Specijalna brigada, rather than their regular army units.

                                Sounds like they wanted a more modern modular assault rifle system than the older Kalashnikov-based rifles that are basically obsolete in the 21st century, without full redesign for interface with modern accessories.
                                All of which is what I understood the 6.5x39/7.62x39 M17 modular rifle system was intended to do.

                                Comment

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