Neck Size Process Question

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  • dega37
    Bloodstained
    • Nov 2014
    • 87

    Neck Size Process Question

    When brass sizing do you guys think it is better to use a neck bushing and expander at the same time or expander then bushing separate?
  • Rickc
    Warrior
    • Aug 2016
    • 311

    #2
    I think for an AR full length resizing is required

    Personally I full length resize.pretty much everything

    I have tried it all

    Comment

    • biodsl
      Chieftain
      • Aug 2011
      • 1714

      #3
      Dega...I just searched on this a few days ago. This should get you started. Lots on bushing sizes and a bit on sizing in one or two steps and use of the expander.
      Paul Peloquin

      Did government credibility die of Covid or with Covid?

      Comment

      • Kilco
        Chieftain
        • Jan 2016
        • 1201

        #4
        I own a couple custom bolt guns that only require neck sizing due to tight chamber tolerances. For ARs I always full length size.

        Comment

        • dega37
          Bloodstained
          • Nov 2014
          • 87

          #5
          Biodsl, I clicked your search link, but it didn't work so I just searched for neck sizing and read a ton of posts but couldn't find what I was looking for. For clarity, I am not trying to neck size only. I am trying to know whether in general it is better to FL size with the expander button installed AND the bushing, or to FL size with the expander ball WITHOUT the bushing, then remove the expander and insert the bushing and ram one more time. My though is that running the expander through the just bushing resized neck might remove the work done by the bushing.

          Comment

          • NugginFutz
            Chieftain
            • Aug 2013
            • 2622

            #6
            Those using Redding Dies to the best effect seem to be forgoing the use of expanders, altogether. If you can get the proper neck tension with just the bushing, what need is there for an expander? Concentricity should benefit from the bushing only approach, as well. A secondary benefit would be the reduced working of the brass at the neck which, by the way, is where most people I read are seeing case failures with Grendel brass.
            If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

            Comment

            • nuthead
              Warrior
              • Nov 2015
              • 138

              #7
              if i havent neck turned the brass I always leave the expander ball in place when sizing (I use them at the same time since the expander ball is either in the FLS die stem or the neck sizing die stem?)

              the reason I do this is because the expander ball pushes any irregularities in the neck to the outside. If I've neck turned the brass I trust that its consistent inside and out

              Comment

              • Klem
                Chieftain
                • Aug 2013
                • 3508

                #8
                I use a Forster FL without the expander ball. It squeezes the neck to produce .003"-4" of neck tension, and that is good enough for me.

                Dega is right, if I include the expander ball it undo's the squeezing of the neck to leave only .001" of neck tension.

                Comment

                • Rickc
                  Warrior
                  • Aug 2016
                  • 311

                  #9
                  I use the Forster full length sizing die with the expander ball. Where the expander is positioned in the Forster die eliminates most of the problems associated with the expander.

                  For a paltry sum you can have a forster die honed for whatever neck tension you prefer. You can also purchase custom expanders.

                  Comment

                  • dega37
                    Bloodstained
                    • Nov 2014
                    • 87

                    #10
                    Thanks for the responses. I understand not using the expander, however, since my brass often has the mouth slightly flattened, I think I am going to have to use it on around 20-30% of my brass. I FL resized in a redding FL bushing die with a .288 bushing and the expander installed. I just checked some of my loaded 123gr scenars in AA lapua brass and the neck diameter is between 290-290.5 - that seems like excellent concentricity to me. The FL sized brass that is unloaded also has excellent concentricity at 288-288.5 which means that I am only getting .0005 - .0015 neck tension. This would also indicate to me that I should probably be using a .287 bushing or perhaps trying to FL size with the expander, then neck size only. Does that sound correct?

                    By the way Klem, Sheridan contacted me when they had more gauges in stock, and it just arrived - this is really a great gauge. There are four things I really like about it 1) it has three steps for headspace 2) it has the throat/bore contour which allows you to see how close the ogive is to contact 3) It displays visually how far off from COAL 2.260" your tip is 4) see the varying space at different parts of the case and you can rotate the case and see if there are variances in those spaces. I am curious as to why they didn't leave the slot open the entire length, however.

                    Comment

                    • Rickc
                      Warrior
                      • Aug 2016
                      • 311

                      #11
                      That is not concentricity

                      Put a little pad on your brass deflector and it will help with the.dented case mouths

                      Comment

                      • Klem
                        Chieftain
                        • Aug 2013
                        • 3508

                        #12
                        Originally posted by dega37 View Post
                        ... I am curious as to why they didn't leave the slot open the entire length, however.
                        Probably so that the axial headspace can be checked down at the web. Some case gauges only measure longitudinal headspace however as I understand it Sheridan uses chamber reamers to make their gauges, so it mimics a chamber in every respect. Overloaded cases tend to extrude brass anywhere it is not supported. So the rim might have a bulge where the extractor void was. If the gauge was slotted the entire length it would not pick that up.

                        Comment

                        • dega37
                          Bloodstained
                          • Nov 2014
                          • 87

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Rickc View Post
                          That is not concentricity

                          Put a little pad on your brass deflector and it will help with the.dented case mouths
                          I plan on getting a velcro patch on the deflector, just haven't gotten around to it yet. The concentricity comment was that the variances around the neck and and body only vary by .0005.

                          Comment

                          • dega37
                            Bloodstained
                            • Nov 2014
                            • 87

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Klem View Post
                            Probably so that the axial headspace can be checked down at the web. Some case gauges only measure longitudinal headspace however as I understand it Sheridan uses chamber reamers to make their gauges, so it mimics a chamber in every respect. Overloaded cases tend to extrude brass anywhere it is not supported. So the rim might have a bulge where the extractor void was. If the gauge was slotted the entire length it would not pick that up.
                            If I am understanding you correctly, wouldn't rotating the case in the slot demonstrate what you are referring to?

                            Comment

                            • Zapp
                              Unwashed
                              • Sep 2014
                              • 16

                              #15
                              Originally posted by dega37 View Post
                              I am curious as to why they didn't leave the slot open the entire length, however.
                              Extending the slot all the way up would then make it a little tougher to read the steps on the face of the gauge. I'd also be slightly concerned about the potential of the gauge to open up even slightly during the machining process.

                              Comment

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