6.5 Brass from 762x39 information

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  • Lastchance54
    Unwashed
    • Dec 2016
    • 11

    6.5 Brass from 762x39 information

    Hi Guys, as a new Grendel owner, I just built an AR in 6.5 and wanted an unlimited cheap supply of brass. I got 1000 pieces of range brass in 7.62x39 and sorted them by brand. I saved all the Fiocci brand for my new Grendel. I have had some experiences that I need to share based on some other people who tried to do the same thing but ran into problems as did I.
    Let me share my experience and warnings too.
    I cleaned the brass then simply ran it through my Lee sizing die. No worries. I trimmed every case before loading I know it needs to be fire formed next. Very Important to do this right. It was suggested to me to choose my bullet, a 123 grain A max in my case and choose the lightest load in my manual to fire form the case. I chose BLC-2 and my minimum listing was 28.8 grains. This proved to be too much. My primers were flat and shinny showing too much pressure. Duh, the Fiocci case is not the same as my Hornaday factory cases and even more diminished capacity due to fire forming the shoulders. If you fill a factory 6.5 Grendel case with water and a fire formed case with water , you will notice a difference in volume or weight due to brass thickness. This means use less powder and work up your load ( I suggest avoiding maximum loads with this brass due in part to the large primer pocket and the smaller case capacity).
    I thought this was going to be easy but there are some precautions.
    Now I have Hornaday brass and fiocci brass but I cannot use the same load in them!
    For extended case life, skip the hot loads in your wildcat cases. In my case, the factory 123 grain Hornady A MAX factory loads grouped poorly in my bull barrel but my reduced loads did a lot better.
    Epilog ; start a ladder loading procedure and work up to your most accurate load, and safest. You will find a chronograph to be helpful and some one inch sticky dots for targets.
    I am following my own advice today and starting with H335 and some 123 A max bullets, I am starting low and going up .3 grains in progression. Hope this helps
    Good luck and stay safe
  • 1911man
    Warrior
    • May 2015
    • 482

    #2
    I looked into doing this a while back since I have about 2-300 pieces of x39 brass sitting around. After research I decided it just wasnt worth the time for me and I didnt want to waste the powder and bullets fire forming and then testing out how my pet load works in the new brass. I hope it works out for you and anyone who tries it though.

    Comment

    • Retro
      Warrior
      • Jul 2016
      • 150

      #3
      I asked some of these questions when I first came to the forum. Someone told me that in the long run not to bother with the 7.62 x 39 as it would never be as good as Hornady or Laua brass. I still haven't fire formed any 7.62 brass. I find that all of the answers that I need are on this forum somewhere.

      Comment

      • dpete
        Warrior
        • May 2016
        • 222

        #4
        There is no need to waist bullets and use rifle charges of powder to fire form 7.62X39 into Grendel brass. Google search "Cream of Wheat method" and watch a few videos. I used 7 grains of CFE Pistol, the cream of wheat, and polyester quilt batting fuzz to hold everything in the case(no bullet at all). The formed cases with their handloads are as accurate as my reloaded Hornady cases with the loads loaded for them. There is absolutely no reason to use bullets when fireforming a case.

        Comment

        • 1911man
          Warrior
          • May 2015
          • 482

          #5
          Originally posted by dpete View Post
          There is no need to waist bullets and use rifle charges of powder to fire form 7.62X39 into Grendel brass. Google search "Cream of Wheat method" and watch a few videos. I used 7 grains of CFE Pistol, the cream of wheat, and polyester quilt batting fuzz to hold everything in the case(no bullet at all). The formed cases with their handloads are as accurate as my reloaded Hornady cases with the loads loaded for them. There is absolutely no reason to use bullets when fireforming a case.
          Yes, I understand that but since cases capacity is smaller I can't run my pet load that is a near max load. I have to re work my way up to be safe. I suppose I could actually do that with few rounds though

          Comment

          • LRRPF52
            Super Moderator
            • Sep 2014
            • 8629

            #6
            Welcome aboard.

            There really is no good reason to use 7.62x39 brass, and hasn't been for many years. Here are the reasons why, some of which you have already discovered:

            * Published load data doesn't exist, since case capacity is less, even after fire-forming.
            * Reduced case volume equals more pressure with published loads for Grendel brass.
            * Most 7.62x39 brass uses Large Rifle Primers, which means less primer pocket life.
            * Fire-forming adds additional brass prep and range time.
            * Brass life is noticeably less than Lapua or Hornady Grendel brass.

            Here are the currently available sources of factory 6.5 Grendel brass:

            Lapua
            Hornady
            Norma
            Nosler
            Federal

            Lapua is the most cost-effective brass by far.
            NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

            CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

            6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

            www.AR15buildbox.com

            Comment

            • Lastchance54
              Unwashed
              • Dec 2016
              • 11

              #7
              1911 Man After all the work I put in so far, I agree. I wish I had just bought a batch of Lapua brass and simply worked up a load. Now I am invested and so I will see how it works out. Got to say, if someone does not have easy access to a range, forget it. Too much driving back and forth for testing. Also these cases tend to grow a lot and must be re trimmed after fire forming. Yikes

              Comment

              • LRRPF52
                Super Moderator
                • Sep 2014
                • 8629

                #8
                You can get 20 loads or more with Lapua brass. I've culled one piece of Lapua brass since 2009, shooting the cartridge a lot. I over-worked that one with Imperial sizing wax, and have switched to spray-on lube now without any further issues.

                With a mild load of CFE223 under 123gr, my Lapua brass comes out looking clean and undamaged, and I am matching the Hornady factory speeds easily with that load of 31.2gr, but with pressures in the 46-47ksi region.
                NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                www.AR15buildbox.com

                Comment

                • Lastchance54
                  Unwashed
                  • Dec 2016
                  • 11

                  #9
                  I totally agree with you. There are many people out there with miss information and one guy was fire forming with max loads! He couldn't figure out why his case necks were splitting ! Hopefully we can save some folks the time, hassle and expense of going through all the work and finding less than desirable results.

                  Comment

                  • Lastchance54
                    Unwashed
                    • Dec 2016
                    • 11

                    #10
                    LRRPF52 Thanks for sharing your experience and your loading data. Very nice. I suppose I am preaching to the choir here but it is my intention to help out people new to the 6.5 Grendel and maybe avoid the mess and expense plus wasted time. Everyone who responded to my post has provided useful information and confirmed that forming these cases is not the best thing to do. Thanks
                    Funny thing is I have made lots of wildcat ammo in the past, such as 7mmm IMSHA, 30 & 357 Herret, 44 automag, 7mm BR and others. This one just doesn't pay off.

                    Comment

                    • LRRPF52
                      Super Moderator
                      • Sep 2014
                      • 8629

                      #11
                      It made sense at one time when people couldn't find Grendel brass, but we haven't seen those days in about a decade.

                      If it was a cartridge with no factory support, that would be your only option. Thankfully, we have more factory Grendel brass than you could ever want.
                      NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                      CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                      6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                      www.AR15buildbox.com

                      Comment

                      • sneaky one
                        Chieftain
                        • Mar 2011
                        • 3077

                        #12
                        LC 54- if you had a bunch of el cheapo components laying around in this caliber to use up--- form the brass.. Plink away - Most of us don't tho. 2-4 shots is about max. on AK brass pockets.

                        I target shoot - when I can , my focus for this round is hunting. I use my 50 pack of Hornady brass to the point of -ALMOST a loose primer pocket- by feel- then use those brass for next 2 years hunts. Some Horn brass lasts 4 shots also.. Sad. I can load same as Lapua tho. That's a plus. Same

                        I shoot 0-2 deer per year.

                        The Horn brass can corrode away on the forest floor -no loss of a Lapua brass that will probably have 10 + more loadings than Horn. Make sense?

                        Norma needs to get NORMAL on the Grr brass prices, what the deuce? Its only brass....70% copper, 30% zinc. Copper trades for $2.32 per Lb. on the mkt.

                        Hopefully Feddy will get the wax out of ears soon. I'm workin on it- it's like pushing a 20 million Lb. train uphill will 4 guys only doing the pushing.

                        No engines, just us 4!!!! Help! Contact Federal !
                        Last edited by sneaky one; 12-31-2016, 05:01 AM.

                        Comment

                        • jkingrph
                          Warrior
                          • Aug 2014
                          • 131

                          #13
                          It has been quite a few years now, but when Lapua brass was scarce and so expensive, I found a deal on IMI 7.62x39 brass, so purchased a large quantity and resized it all for the 6.5 Grendel. As far as wasting powder and bullets for fireforming, I to do not find that to be the case. Using a good bullet the fireforming loads are accurate, not as good as a proper formed case, and give up some velocity . They have functioned my AR rifles just fine, no short stroking or stacking at all. They may not give gilt edge accuracy and velocity, but are fine for plinking and just fun target shooting.

                          I have one of the new CZ 527 American rifles in order and will save my Lapua brass to use in it.
                          Member before 2010, account deleted per 2011 spam attack

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