Lead-Free Projectiles for the 6.5 Grendel

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  • rickOshay
    Warrior
    • Apr 2012
    • 784

    Lead-Free Projectiles for the 6.5 Grendel

    Weight: Published weight in grains
    Name: make and model
    Length: measured in inches, may vary from published data, especially for plastic tipped LFPs.
    G1 BC: G1 Ballistic coefficient from published data.
    Cost: Published cost, mainly from Midwest USA web site.
    Muzzle Velocity: Most values are estimates or extrapolated. To be updated.
    Minimum Velocity: lowest velocities required for beginning of expansion in PermaGel.
    Maximum Range: Range at which the LFP would drop to Minimum Velocity based on the estimated Muzzle Velocity.

    The minimum velocities were determined using synthetic ballistic gelatin (PermaGel) at a distance of 10 ft. Loads were reduced to give velocities from 1600 to 2400 fps. Velocity was measured at the muzzle using a Magnetospeed chronograph.

    The maximum ranges were calculated using the JBM Ballistics Trajectoryhttp://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...389#post146389

    I hope you find this thread useful. My personal thanks to BluntForceTrauma for enabling me to set up this locked sticky thread. And a special thanks to SneakyOne for providing cut down versions of many of these LFPs so that they could be captured in gels at low velocities.

    Be safe,
    rickOshay
    Last edited by rickOshay; 11-20-2017, 02:25 PM.
  • rickOshay
    Warrior
    • Apr 2012
    • 784

    #2
    The 85 gr Pure Precision Match ULD.
    Length: 1.040
    G1 coefficient: 0.365
    Price: $27.99/50 ($0.559 each)
    Source: Pure Precision Web Site



    Precision CNC turned solid projectile designed for accuracy. Not likely to expand in gels, but still awaiting high velocity gel testing confirmation.

    This LFP may be considered for harvesting pelts if downrange issues are not created by overpenetration.
    Last edited by rickOshay; 01-17-2017, 12:19 AM.

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    • rickOshay
      Warrior
      • Apr 2012
      • 784

      #3
      The 85 gr Maker Bullets TREX
      Length: 1.076
      G1 coefficient: 0.370
      Price: $35.00/50 ($1.08 each)
      Source: Maker Bullets Website

      Loaded ammunition also available from Maker: https://makerbullets.com/proddetail....6.5G85TREXAMMO



      Gel testing results show the lightweight T-REX opening nicely at 1685fps. Likely minimum is closer to 1600.

      The recovered TREX weighed 84.4g and thus retained 99.3% of its weight, with loss of the polymer tip. The LFP was recovered after 20.5" of gel penetration.


      My results match closely to those provided by the Manufacturer:


      Hunting results below were provided by HuntTxHogs. They agree well with those provided by Maker and show the 85gr TREX is an excellent choice for hunting coyote and hogs.


      He reported that all of the recovered LFPs expanded to 0.730 - 0.850 and penetrated 12"-16". They all retained 100% of their weight - the encased tissue accounts for weight loss from the polymer tip.

      The estimated impacts, based on 3000fps at muzzle, were from 2400fps (185 yds) to 2750fps (75 yds).

      More details are given below in his video of the hunts:
      Last edited by rickOshay; 04-30-2020, 12:50 AM.

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      • rickOshay
        Warrior
        • Apr 2012
        • 784

        #4
        The 86 gr GS Custom HV
        Length: 1.100
        G1 coefficient: 0.328
        Price: $54.00/50 ($1.08 each)
        Source: GSC Web SiteGSC HV Review

        Impact speeds L to R: 2573, 2606. 2717


        For minimum speed, see the post on the 95 gr version at 1891 fps (see 95 g GSC below).

        Precision machined to true and consistent weight with controlled expansion without weight loss at Grendel velocities. Capable of harvesting deer out past ranges considered ethical. But this capability comes at a price. The GS Custom HV LFPs are all over $1.00 each.
        Last edited by rickOshay; 06-11-2017, 01:18 AM.

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        • rickOshay
          Warrior
          • Apr 2012
          • 784

          #5
          90 gr Cerberus Experimental
          BluntForceTrama et.al. development of a Dedicated 6.5 Grendel Projectile.
          Gentlemen, Fanatics, and Unwashed Barbarians, I've stayed up late to make a proposal for a dedicated 6.5 Grendel projectile that's been simmering in my feverish brain for a while now. I believe it was LRRPF52 who first proposed such a projectile about a year ago, and I've spent some time fleshing it out. Take a look at





          After shooting gels, the bullets fracture down to the base of the hollow cavity. The aluminum tips were recovered unaltered.



          Cerberus II

          Here is the latest incarnation of the Cerberus, a 95gr Copper LFP:


          This LFP is designed to break into two halves, with the tip rotating through its target, while the base penetrates. Gel tests confirmed the initial design performance:

          L to R: 2601 fps, 2373 fps, and 2250 fps.

          At the higher velocities, the tip broke off in the first 1 - 2" of penetration, while taking a little longer at 2250 fps.

          More info can be found on the original post: Cerberus Version 2

          More to come on accuracy.
          Last edited by rickOshay; 09-10-2017, 02:00 AM.

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          • rickOshay
            Warrior
            • Apr 2012
            • 784

            #6
            The 95 gr Maker Bullets T-REX
            Length: 1.015
            G1 coefficient: 0.310
            Price: $35.00/50 ($0.70 ea)
            Source: Maker Bullets Website

            Loaded ammunition is also available from Maker: https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=6.5G95TREX

            Maker Bullets kindly provided (thank you Paul) these 95 gr versions of their popular T-REX projectile, these do not have plastic tips.



            Gel testing shows these will open up at about 1700 fps or less. The recovered LFP below after impact at 1753 fps penetrated 27.5" and weighed 94.7g.
            Last edited by rickOshay; 04-30-2020, 01:37 AM.

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            • rickOshay
              Warrior
              • Apr 2012
              • 784

              #7
              The 95 gr Lehigh Controlled Chaos
              Length: 1.125
              G1 coefficient: 0.374
              Price: $36.63/100 ($0.37 each)
              Source: Lehigh Defense Web Site



              CNC machined from pure brass, the Controlled Chaos was designed for animal control, initially in .243 caliber, to provide massive wound damage with minimal pass through. Because of its very low price point, lowest of all LFPs tested, it also is a great plinking option.

              Although the Lehigh published a minimum velocity of 2000 fps, I was not able to confirm this result. After impacting the gel at 2400 fps, the projectile had only the tips broken off (right in picture below). The LFP on the left impacted the gel at 2700 fps and the petals broke off to the base.


              Here is one recovered from a hog by Double Naught Spy who kindly provided the photo. See his hunting report here: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...esults-on-Hogs



              The video provided by Double Naught Spy shows the hog taken at about 40 yards. No muzzle velocity was provided, but the impact velocity is expected to be above well above 2000 fps. Compared to the gel results, it shows less deformation than the 2700 fps shot shown above.

              Here is a link to his second hunt with the 95gr Chaos where he concludes this is NOT a suitable LFP for hunting hogs with a Grendel.
              Ben and I both had a LOT of overpenetration of hogs, him with his Maker T-Rex and Speer Gold Dot bullets and me with my Controlled Chaos 95 gr. BRASS that were supposed to break apart and form multiple wound channels. These bullets did not appear to do this. Instead, they are zipping through most hogs like butter. I did recover
              Last edited by rickOshay; 10-05-2018, 01:47 PM.

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              • rickOshay
                Warrior
                • Apr 2012
                • 784

                #8
                The 95 gr GS Custom HV
                Length: 1.180
                G1 coefficient: 0.368
                Price: $57.00/50 ($1.14 each)
                Source: CheyTac Site



                The second in the .264 caliber line of HVs, the 95 gr is an attractive LFP for the Grendel for deer-sized game. Now distributed by Chey Tac USA.
                Chey Tac.

                Recovered from gel after impact at 1890 fps


                GS Custom’s website showed complete expansion at 1900 fps when fired into water saturated foam. http://www.gsgroup.co.za/faqexpansion.html

                The minimum velocity is likely to be around 1800. With an estimated MV of 2800 fps, the effective range is 425 yards.

                More to come here on load data and accuracy.
                Last edited by rickOshay; 06-11-2017, 01:15 AM.

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                • rickOshay
                  Warrior
                  • Apr 2012
                  • 784

                  #9
                  The 100 gr Barnes Tipped TSX and the Tipped TAC-TX
                  Length: 1.156
                  G1 Coefficient: 0.359
                  Price: $33.99/50 ($0.68 each) and $34.99/50 ($0.70 each)
                  Source: Midway USA Web Site - TTSX and Midway USA Web Site - TAC-TX

                  Pictured below are the TSX (top) and the TAC-TX (bottom):



                  Machined 100% copper with a polymer tip to increase BC and aid in expansion.


                  Until this point, I have treated these two projectiles as essentially the same. The only measurable difference so far is the "X" on the bottom of the TTSX. Until I can get time to shoot the TAC-TX into gels.

                  The 100 gr Barnes has been the go-to LFP for the Grendel. Its only drawback is the velocity needed to open up and begin expansion. Gel results show this speed to be at least 2000 fps.

                  Impact velocities L to R: 1859, 2044, 2738

                  Load data from Barnes website is reproduced here for their 100 gr LFPs:
                  Last edited by rickOshay; 04-02-2020, 08:46 PM.

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                  • rickOshay
                    Warrior
                    • Apr 2012
                    • 784

                    #10
                    The 100 gr Cutting Edge Raptor
                    Length: 1.400 with tip, 1.110 without tip installed.
                    G1 coefficient: 0.300 with tip
                    Price: $62.23/50 ($1.25 ea)
                    Source: Midway USA



                    A unique design that incorporates a removable plastic tip. The Raptor is intended to be shot as a hollow point with out the tip installed, and with the tip for increased BC for longer range shooting. The Raptor also can be seated upside down and shot as a penetrating solid.
                    Link: https://cuttingedgebullets.com/264-6...0gr-esp-raptor

                    They are extremely long with the plastic tip installed: 1.400

                    But the cavity is very deep: 0.398". Or about the entire top half of the bullet, measuring back almost to where the diameter increases from 0.2555" of the body to 0.264" for the raised bands.

                    Here is the Raptor recovered from a gel after impact at 1904 fps:


                    As you might guess, the petals broke off after about 3 - 6 inches of penetration and it came to rest at 17".

                    The recovered LFP weighted 76.4 gr.
                    Last edited by rickOshay; 09-10-2017, 01:41 AM.

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                    • rickOshay
                      Warrior
                      • Apr 2012
                      • 784

                      #11
                      Placeholder for 103gr
                      Last edited by rickOshay; 03-28-2020, 08:26 PM.

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                      • rickOshay
                        Warrior
                        • Apr 2012
                        • 784

                        #12
                        The 105 gr Cavity Back Bullet MKZ
                        Length: 1.246
                        G1 coefficient: 0.480
                        Price: $34.50/50 ($0.69 ea)
                        Source: Cavity Back Bullet Web Site



                        Another newcomer to the LFP scene, CBB has produced a very exciting line, called MKZ, that promises to be very effective at Grendel velocities. The unique design of these LFPs is explained on their website that includes three grooves cut into the upper half to aid expansion, and a cavity in the base to allow more room for powder. The benefits of this design are described on the CBB website: http://www.cavitybackbullets.com/category-s/103.htm

                        The unique feature is the cavity in the base. The cavity is 0.160" deep and holds about 0.8 gr CFE 223.

                        Left: 1724 fps, no expansion, penetration was >25" as it took a curved path.
                        Right: 2088 fps, expanded to 0.435", penetration >17" (hit bottom of second gel)


                        As CavityBackBullets pointed out in post #9 on the related thread, the 105s are made to a higher hardness than the 118s. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...gr-gel-results

                        This data supports the higher hardness. The 105 did not open at all at 1724 fps. The tip was damaged when it struck the bottom metal plate.


                        The gel shows the 1724 fps shot at the top, leaving very little of a cavity until it flipped over after 13". The second track was at 2113; third was 2247, forth was 2088; and the 5th was a commercial SST traveling at 2511 fps. You can see the red tip in the second node of the track. Only the two shown were recovered. All others exited the top of the second get.

                        Here are links to DoubleNaughtSpy's videos on performance of the 105:
                        260 lb Boar and Coyote
                        210 lb Boar

                        Link to his review post: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...Graphic-Images
                        Last edited by rickOshay; 03-28-2020, 08:26 PM.

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                        • rickOshay
                          Warrior
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 784

                          #13
                          The 105 gr Pure Precision Match AR
                          Length: 1.200
                          G1 coefficient: 0.446
                          Price: $29.99/50 ($0.60 each)
                          Source: Pure Precision Web Site



                          The second weight in the Pure Precision .264 line is the 105 gr Match AR. Designed for ARs, and specifically for the Grendel. Match accuracy for targets and varmints.


                          More to come here on load data and accuracy.
                          Last edited by rickOshay; 03-28-2020, 08:25 PM.

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                          • rickOshay
                            Warrior
                            • Apr 2012
                            • 784

                            #14
                            The 107 gr GS Custom HV
                            Length: 1.270
                            G1 coefficient: 0.403
                            Price: $65.00/50 ($1.30 each)
                            Source: Chey Tac



                            Now distributed in the US by CheyTac USA, the third in the GSC HV line is the 107 gr.

                            Initial gel results shown below:

                            On Left: impacting at 2223 fps penetrated 33" after impacting bottom plate.
                            On Right: impacting at 1840 fps penetrated 34" after impacting bottom plate.

                            It appears that this weight LFP of the HV line was just beginning to open at 1840 fps, compared to lighter weight versions (see above). But more repetitions are needed to draw definitive conclusion.,

                            Load data by GS Custom found here: http://www.gsgroup.co.za/hvloadsmall.html
                            Last edited by rickOshay; 03-28-2020, 08:24 PM.

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                            • rickOshay
                              Warrior
                              • Apr 2012
                              • 784

                              #15
                              110 gr High Velocity Controlled Chaos
                              Length: 1.225
                              G1 Coefficient: 0.405
                              Price: $31.86/100 ($0.32 ea) Introductory sale price
                              Source: MidWay USA

                              Loaded ammunition is available from Underwood Ammunition at $35.50/20. http://www.underwoodammo.com/product...18785693696057



                              The newest edition to the .264 caliber LFPs from Lehigh Defense is the 110 gr Controlled Chaos with an outstanding advertised velocity range of 1,500 to 4,200 fps. Lehigh Defense Website

                              They have published "theoretical load data for popular Grendel powders such as AA2520, H335, Tac and 8208. A COAL of 2.245" in an 18" barrel is expected to achieve up to 2800 fps using 8208.

                              Here are the initial gel results for the 110gr Controlled Chaos.



                              A commercial 123g SST on the left hitting the gel at 2538 fps, penetrated 21".

                              The Controlled Chaos is on the right impacting at 1976 fps. The two large fragments penetrated to 9" and 12" respectively and weighed 23.7 and 20.7 gr respectively.

                              The base penetrated to 24" and weighed 54.7 gr. The 5 fragments recovered weighed a total of 103.7gr



                              Below is the table of load data published by Lehigh Defense on their website:
                              Last edited by rickOshay; 04-19-2020, 06:54 PM.

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