I know this is the wrong place but!!!

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  • Klem
    Chieftain
    • Aug 2013
    • 3509

    #16
    In the 300WM

    Federal cases have 92grains of H2O (capacity) and,
    Winchester has 93.8.

    This difference in volume, even with the same amount of powder is going to result in different pressures.

    Quickload computer simulation
    Using the Winchester cases you get a pressure of 52,887lbs.
    Using the Federal cases you get a pressure of 55,378 lbs.

    This means there will be roughly 40fps difference between the two manufacturers cases but both are still way below the SAAMI peak pressure of 62,366lbs. You get more velocity out of the Federal cases at about 3,100fps mark (depending on your barrel length) but as far as pressure is concerned they are both mild loads.

    Something else is wrong. If it was easy to close the bolt it could still be too much headspace. Not enough headspace makes it difficult to close the bolt and that is way more safe than too much headspace. Too much headspace results in the case rupturing, and that will occur with any load; hot or mild.

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    • Ten Ring
      Bloodstained
      • Dec 2016
      • 74

      #17
      That what I woundering, I probably have 1000 to 1500 rounds threw the rifle. I bought it from a friend who had bought it new
      I got it in 2005 it is one of the first Tactical Savage made before the Accu trigger.

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      • Ten Ring
        Bloodstained
        • Dec 2016
        • 74

        #18
        I had be think more like seated two long so bullet was in to or touching forceing cone.
        I had made that mistake years ago when I started reloading

        Comment

        • Klem
          Chieftain
          • Aug 2013
          • 3509

          #19
          Unlikely to be overall length jamming in the lands. The SAAMI spec for COAL is 3.34" and you are loading 3.37". That's not a lot over spec and as you say, you've shot over a 1,000 rounds through it already. The throat will have worn even longer and presumably you've been loading similar lengths, and used the same bullet through it already.

          With respect, you started the thread saying it was a 168gn bullet and later said it was 165gn. In your shoes I would go back to basics and weigh and measure the bullet. Confirm it is what the box says it is. Same with the powder and how much is going in the case. Check fired cartridges against how much you are bumping the shoulders back. Something has seriously gone wrong and it might be a simple mistake.
          Last edited by Klem; 01-17-2017, 02:19 AM.

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          • Texas
            Chieftain
            • Jun 2016
            • 1230

            #20
            I can not open your picture. Can you try to send it again
            Did the bolt or barrel come apart? If you can, take pictures of the brass base and a picture from the side. The 300 Win Mag head spaces on the belt as do most belted cartridges.
            Last edited by Texas; 01-17-2017, 04:05 AM.

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            • Ten Ring
              Bloodstained
              • Dec 2016
              • 74

              #21
              The bolt fractured . I can not get bolt or brass out of the rifle.
              They are 165 I mis spoke the 168 I use on occasion for paper punching are BTHP match kings

              Comment

              • LR1955
                Super Moderator
                • Mar 2011
                • 3355

                #22
                TR:

                It is very difficult to do much with the picture you took.

                I think that Tex can figure out the most likely cause if he can see some decent pictures.

                You got one through already so can you try to get a few more?

                Take one of the entire rifle so we can see what part or parts blew off.

                Then take a close up of the area again.

                If there is a bulge in the barrel, take a picture but make it cover enough of the rifle that we know where the bulge is located.

                Did any of the cartridges in the magazine go off? If so and you can find pieces of them, try to put the pieces back together and take a picture of them.

                Finally, a picture of any pieces or the rifle that you found.

                From the one picture you took, it appears that the side of the receiver where the magazine is located is what blew off. Hard for me to understand with a bolt rifle unless you had a slam fire just before the bolt locked totally into battery.

                LR55

                Comment

                • Ten Ring
                  Bloodstained
                  • Dec 2016
                  • 74

                  #23
                  I have problems get pictures on here it keeps telling me the files are to large and when I shrink the down well you see what you get. I Am working on trying to fix that . No bulge in the Barrel

                  Comment

                  • Ten Ring
                    Bloodstained
                    • Dec 2016
                    • 74

                    #24
                    I trying to get pictures resize so I can up load then to forum. No bulge in Barrel and no rounds in mag. Went off

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                    • Ten Ring
                      Bloodstained
                      • Dec 2016
                      • 74

                      #25
                      Here I go again

                      Hope theses are better
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                      • Klem
                        Chieftain
                        • Aug 2013
                        • 3509

                        #26
                        It is not my experience that incipient case separation causes such damage. Case separation from things like too much headspace or simply worn out from being loaded too many times. I have however seen similar damage to a gun caused by accidentally overloading the cartridge.

                        Comment

                        • Texas
                          Chieftain
                          • Jun 2016
                          • 1230

                          #27
                          In looking at picture 3 it appears that the cartridge case is visible and in picture 1 the bolt handle appears to be in the full forward position, if that is the case, then the bolt face is missing. The only real way to determine the cause of the catastrophic failure is to examine the grain structure of the steel under an electron microscope which is beyond the capabilities of the vast majority. I would suggest you contact Savage and arrange to send it to them for a full analysis.

                          Having said that:
                          1. Is the powder that you loaded with new or old? If it is new, have you loaded this load with the same lot number before. A given powder can change 10% within range and still be considered to be the same powder, so if one lot is on the low end of the spectrum and the other is on the high end of the spectrum, the effective difference between lots in this case could be as much as 8.0 gr.
                          2, Catastrophic failures can be the results of an increase in micro-fractures to the point that they finally give way. A micro-fracture could be caused by an overload at some point and the continual stressing will finally cause it to give way, again this can be determined by micro-structure analysis.
                          3. In picture 3 there appears to be some brass flowing which would be indicative of an overloaded case. There are also what appear to be heat striations on the front of the visible bolt, it may be powder residue, but it does appear to be blue in color. This was probably not the result of this single incident but may be cumulative.

                          Please send the rifle to Savage for analysis and let us know their findings

                          Comment

                          • Ten Ring
                            Bloodstained
                            • Dec 2016
                            • 74

                            #28
                            Over charge was my first guess. But still not sure how I could have done it unless my scale was not calibrated properly.
                            But with what I have learned from you about 300 brass being so inconsistent between manufacturers, Has me woundering if I just did not hit the perfect storm of a little to much power and the wrong brass with a old wepon with a little ware and BANG!!!!

                            Comment

                            • Ten Ring
                              Bloodstained
                              • Dec 2016
                              • 74

                              #29
                              But I do thank you all on your input. And as soon as I get glass on my Grendel i will get some pictures of groups and stuff

                              Comment

                              • Ten Ring
                                Bloodstained
                                • Dec 2016
                                • 74

                                #30
                                It was fresh powder and the first I have used it have always used RL19 but nave been unable to find it was talked int to trying it. I am in the proses of opening a case with savage arms and returning the Rif for their inspection.
                                Most important to is to find out if I did by either ignorance or Neglect cause the problem, so I can learn from it !!!

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