2017 SHOT After-Action Review

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  • LRRPF52
    Super Moderator
    • Sep 2014
    • 8569

    2017 SHOT After-Action Review

    Several of us from the forum went down to SHOT again this year.

    Some of us had appointments with various vendors, but were still able to look around at a few things in between places we had to be.

    I'll start with some basic takeaways:

    There is a general mood that I felt that is looking forward to the future in this industry, with a lot of innovation and new products that are taking things into the future.

    New Wave of 6.5mm
    There is a new wave of 6.5mm that really picked up in the US with the precision rifle crowd, best summarized by Zak Smith in his often-referenced article on 3 different 6.5-08 class cartridges about 10 years ago. Many 6.5mm shooters already understood the benefits of the low-recoiling 6.5x55 Mauser, as well as the .264 Winchester Magnum.

    The .260 Remington really started changing things in the target-shooting crowd, where everyone started pulling their .308 barrels and going to .260 Rem when they saw that it is flatter with less wind drift than the .300 Win Mag, but fits in a standard short action.

    Then the AR15 market experienced a leap in evolution looking at retained energy on target, as well as hit probability with the introduction of the 6.5 Grendel.

    Hornady saw the market, and responded to the .260 Rem with the 6.5 Creedmoor, to which many people asked, "Why?" They're not asking anymore, and you see most rifle makers chambering in 6.5 Creedmoor now.

    What we're seeing is a large wave of 6.5mm popularity that has been building since the first decade of the 21st Century. Evidence?

    40 factory loads for 6.5 Grendel, including 3 new ones from Federal, 1 new one from Hornady with the 123gr ELD-M (their latest bullet line), and at least 6 SKUs between Howa and CZ for bolt gun 6.5 Grendels.

    Savage and several other companies including Aero Precision introduced 6.5 Creedmoor AR10s, the Savage being a small frame.

    AR15 Market Trends
    Current trends in the AR market are more lightweight, different calibers, companies looking desperately for ways to differentiate themselves from the crowd of forged military-looking receivers, and not a lot doing a good job of it. Most are using Cerakote to put lipstick on a pig. For those that are distancing from the crowd, interest is huge in their designs and engineering feats.

    PDWs
    Compact, suppressed AR15s and AR15-inspired carbines are swelling across most manufacturers.

    One company to look at is Cobalt Kinetics. They wiped the slate clean on design and aesthetics for the AR15, and really out-did themselves.

    Suppressors
    Growth of suppressor manufacturers is huge, much more than any of us ever imagined I think. SilencerCo has already taken integral suppression to the pistol world with the Maxim 9, and their company culture is very modern, engaging, and bend-over backwards to help get as many silencers into the hands of the people.

    Optics
    In the optics world, the new line of Vortex Viper PSTs is simply awesome, with improved zero stop Razor-like turrets, illumination in the side focus, and improved ruggedization with optical element retention.

    The Elcan 1/3/9 prism scope is an exceptional piece of work for the DM role, and functions as a legitimate red dot sight on 1x, then can easily be turned to 3x with a knob, then 9x, with a proportional reticle to the magnification.

    Geissele introduced their new coating system, a nano particle deposition, as well as several different triggers including single-stage for the AR, scope mounts, and even rifles with their new coating they have been working on. They are continuing to innovate at an almost breath-taking pace, while taking care of their customers.

    There were just under 65,000 people in attendance this year, which is huge. I'm already looking forward to next year's show more than I ever have, and I've been there consistently since 2008, with 1 or 2 exceptions when I was overseas.
    NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

    CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

    6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

    www.AR15buildbox.com
  • rabiddawg
    Chieftain
    • Feb 2013
    • 1664

    #2
    Thanks for the report.

    It's about time the industry can relax just a bit and focus on what it does best.
    Knowing everthing isnt as important as knowing where to find it.

    Mark Twain

    http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...2-Yd-Whitetail

    Comment

    • Bigs28
      Chieftain
      • Feb 2016
      • 1786

      #3
      After your review i went and looked up those new vortex. I would really like a 1-6x but all the ones i find from vortex are x24 and i think i want something with a x32 objective lens since some of the game i see is at low light times. Not sure if I'm over thinking my needs but I've never used a x24 to know how much a difference it is during low light. Any thoughts on my quandary would be appreciated.

      Comment

      • LRRPF52
        Super Moderator
        • Sep 2014
        • 8569

        #4
        Light transmission is a function of several avenues, in this case of magnification, it's optimum lens diameter for the power factor and range of adjustment.

        What they learned with the 2.5-10x44 PST was that anything over 32mm of objective was a waste, which is why the 2.5-10x32 PST FFP was born. That had 4 factor magnification.

        The new Gen II PSTs have 5 factor magnification, so the 2-10x32 and 3-15x44 will make excellent options, especially for 6.5 Grendel.

        On the 1-6x, I doubt anything bigger than 24mm on the objective will transmit more light due to the alignment and focus of the optical elements.
        NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

        CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

        6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

        www.AR15buildbox.com

        Comment

        • bwaites
          Moderator
          • Mar 2011
          • 4445

          #5
          My 1-6 Razor is bright! I've never seen a situation near dusk where I couldn't see much better with it than without. X24 works just fine at these magnification levels.

          Comment

          • Bigs28
            Chieftain
            • Feb 2016
            • 1786

            #6
            Great, thanks for the input

            Comment

            • BjornF16
              Chieftain
              • Jun 2011
              • 1825

              #7
              Did y'all see anything new on the Grendel bullpup front?
              LIFE member: NRA, TSRA, SAF, GOA
              Defend the Constitution and our 2A Rights!

              Comment

              • hikfromstik
                Warrior
                • Oct 2016
                • 190

                #8
                LLR , I have a Anderson with the RF85 coating and it is supposed to be Nano tech created at Oakridge Tn Laboratory ( atomic bomb maker ). I wonder if the Geissele coating is in the RF85 family of coatings. I watched Bill Geissele's video off their website and he explains it and it sounds very similar to Anderson's RF85 . Anderson has videos of rf85 coated bearings( unlubed ) that ran unbelievably longer than uncoated (lubed) bearings . Anderson advises to never oil the gun and clean everything with soap and water then rinse with water . I've shot over 1000rnds and followed their instructions. All my gun buddies think I'm nutz and it's just marketing to sell guns , but there is something to it. When the gun gets hot the metal gets slicker . My gun runs good and stays clean longer due to it being dry .
                Last edited by hikfromstik; 01-26-2017, 12:40 AM.

                Comment

                • LRRPF52
                  Super Moderator
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 8569

                  #9
                  I sensed a building volume of excitement that is coming like a freight train. It's totally different than the excitement present at 2008 SHOT, which was insane in the wake of money pouring in from GWOT. This was much different, with a healthy market presence generally dominated by increased civilian sales from 8 years of Hussein. Now that millions of new shooters all went out and bought AR15s, semi auto pistols, went to the range and saw that they could buy suppressors through a convoluted gov't scheme and went ahead with the paperwork because suppressors are "cool", a new generation of gun owners was born.

                  It was another record year of attendance with just under 65,000 people there, 2nd largest numbers to 2008 from what NSSF is saying.

                  A lot of things are brewing up to the surface, HPA being just one of them. We are in an era where another post-gov't scare wave has increased the number of shooters buying things they were told they won't be able to get again, so they went and bough them instead of a new big screen or an older-era sporterized battle rifle design from the late 1800s. People overlook the fact that once someone buys that new evil black rifle or semi auto pistol, they are going to want to go out and shoot it. Now they need a case, ammo, holster, belt, ear pro, eye pro, range dues, maybe some instruction, and the thing balloons out of control with an economic footprint that is much larger than the fixed costs of the firearms themselves.

                  Once they get a taste of the detachable box magazine-fed, semi automatic goodness, with low recoil, it feeds into a positive-loop feedback wanting more and more, with gunpowder fumes ruminating in the nostrils of freedom.

                  My personal likings aside, there is a new wave of 6.5mm taking over this industry finally.

                  Everybody is making either some kind of 6.5mm Creedmoor or Grendel, or both, and ammo for them from major manufacturers galore. There are now 40 6.5 Grendel factory loads. I haven't counted 6.5 Creedmoor yet, but every time I go to the store, there are piles of it on every LGS and range, as well as all the big retailers like Cabella's, Scheels, and Sportsman's Warehouse.

                  Federal introduced new loads for both 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5 Grendel, to include Gold Medal Match and Fusion in both chamberings.

                  Savage introduced the MSR-15 and MSR-10, with the -10 being available in .308 Winchester and 6.5 Creedmoor, which is an awesome rifle set up from the start with Extended Length Gas, non-gas port choking adjustable gas with a cartridge tip, a really nice side-charger on the left kinda like a Beretta M12S SMG handle, and the new Magpul PRS as a standard for the 6.5 Creedmoor MSR-10.

                  The companies that recognize this new wave of market trends and proactively prepare for them are going to make millions upon millions.

                  Those that are looking at a slump in post-Obama years will self-fulfill their perspective.
                  NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                  CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                  6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                  www.AR15buildbox.com

                  Comment

                  • sneaky one
                    Chieftain
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 3077

                    #10
                    It's go time for the 6.5 gangs. This caliber lost almost all sales after the 60-70's- the .270 was a rock star back then- still is. , kinda...

                    I took a while for Grendel Mania to take root as well. A many of us push this cartridge ahead as hard, and far as we can.

                    The .260 is , an excellent round- almost bought a boltie after first offered for sale from Ruger. I was in Magnum mode back then- 7mm Rem Mag.

                    I wasn't seeing the close range damage that I wanted . Wanted something that was close - yet- far range reaching. Blade convinced me on the Grendel- instead of the Beowulf.

                    Dual usage rifle, it's done well for me in 20".,, & 16 " tubes.


                    .260 Creed---- is it needed?

                    Comment

                    • Drift
                      Warrior
                      • Nov 2014
                      • 509

                      #11
                      And for those of you who like hunting at night, Pulsar has some thermal scopes coming out that are more then most people need; and cost <$3k. Considering what most of us have invested in our Grendels all ready, turning them into 24/7 hunting/tactical machines $3k is a bargain.

                      Comment

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