MY Accuracy Sucks

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  • Klem
    Chieftain
    • Aug 2013
    • 3507

    #31
    Originally posted by Rickc View Post
    Most will be punching paper on the rifle.range. this is the target and competition forum. I believe many on this forum have bought hbar barrel profiles. You know very well how impertant a consistent hold is for.accuracy. Something i have.found that is very difficult for inexperienced shooters. Especially with a lighter gun.

    I would be careful implying you are more experienced than 'inexperienced shooters'. You are now immortalised at the range complex I attend.

    Against my better judgement I decided to try the Rick's Hands-Off technique today, if only to prove you wrong. I used a 16" Recon Rifle in 5.56. I followed the 'best ever group' technique on this thread and let rip with a 5 round full-auto burst. It attracted some attention from others nearby. Where I shoot full-auto from an assault rifle is considered undisciplined and wasteful. Even more curious from a rifle with no select fire (Giessele SSA-E). One more 4 round burst to confirm it was bump firing and by then I had a small crowd around me giving me sh*t.

    After the explanation the jokes started. Ricks 'Best Group' Technique and the 'Rick Technique'. If you are self deprecating it wouldn't be so bad but I'm guessing probably not.

    To the rest of the Forum, if you want a cheap, dangerous thrill then follow Rick's advice on this thread.

    Rick, I notice you like giving advice but have yet to ask for it. Please dial it back. More listening and less talking. Buy a 6.5 Grendel in an AR15 chassis and spend some time getting used to it. Experts like 55 and 52 are happy to help with any questions you might have.

    Comment

    • Rickc
      Warrior
      • Aug 2016
      • 311

      #32
      Oh well

      Would.have thought someone.with your.experience.would.have.better.sense than that

      You really should have.that.rifle examined.by a competent gunsmith

      Comment

      • Klem
        Chieftain
        • Aug 2013
        • 3507

        #33
        What an extraordinary reply.

        Let's consider what happened. You gave dodgy advice to the Forum and it's come back to bite you. You then blame me for listening to you and the gun I was using. Why don't you take responsibility for the advice you gave? It's plainly obvious you gave it so you may as well. How hard is it to acknowledge you made a mistake?

        As for me, I'm happy to admit I didn't see it coming. If that means I am not as experienced as you think you are, or assume I am then hey, happy to say I learned something new today. The bump firing from the rest makes sense but I didn't see it coming. Does the rifle need to be examined by a competent gunsmith? Swallow your pride and stop digging yourself deeper. You know about bolt guns and re-loading but have little experience with AR's and this calibre. How about confining yourself to advising others on what you know, and asking questions about what you don't know.

        Comment

        • A5BLASTER
          Chieftain
          • Mar 2015
          • 6192

          #34
          Rickc not to come off rude but sir I'm not what others would call a high skilled shooter but hit what I aim at and shoot great groups but even I can see your advice is not very good.

          But I will be the first to state I think this tread is getting off topic and that is not right to the OP who is looking for help.

          Comment

          • Rickc
            Warrior
            • Aug 2016
            • 311

            #35
            Klem

            You did an experiment with a.predetermined outcome

            Doesn't change my opinion one bit

            Bet you did attract some attention. Probably pretty embarrassing. And using me to redirect the scrutiny was a great plan.

            Comment

            • LR1955
              Super Moderator
              • Mar 2011
              • 3355

              #36
              Originally posted by Klem View Post
              I would be careful implying you are more experienced than 'inexperienced shooters'. You are now immortalised at the range complex I attend.

              Against my better judgement I decided to try the Rick's Hands-Off technique today, if only to prove you wrong. I used a 16" Recon Rifle in 5.56. I followed the 'best ever group' technique on this thread and let rip with a 5 round full-auto burst. It attracted some attention from others nearby. Where I shoot full-auto from an assault rifle is considered undisciplined and wasteful. Even more curious from a rifle with no select fire (Giessele SSA-E). One more 4 round burst to confirm it was bump firing and by then I had a small crowd around me giving me sh*t.

              After the explanation the jokes started. Ricks 'Best Group' Technique and the 'Rick Technique'. If you are self deprecating it wouldn't be so bad but I'm guessing probably not.

              To the rest of the Forum, if you want a cheap, dangerous thrill then follow Rick's advice on this thread.

              Rick, I notice you like giving advice but have yet to ask for it. Please dial it back. More listening and less talking. Buy a 6.5 Grendel in an AR15 chassis and spend some time getting used to it. Experts like 55 and 52 are happy to help with any questions you might have.
              Klem:

              How can you bump fire using a free recoil technique? The rifle is moving away from the trigger finger to the extent the trigger guard or stock allows. Or did the free recoil actuate the sear?

              I don't mess around if I have to load test with a semi auto blaster. No matter if it weighs fifteen pounds or six pounds. I use a pretty solid hold in a pretty solid position. My theory is that if the rifle or carbine is held firmly enough, it will go back into position quickly and can take a trigger pull problem without moving the blaster. From a bench or prone using bags, I normally put a lot of pressure down on the stock and will pull it into my shoulder as needed to settle out any movement I see through the optic. Isometric hold, not a lot of muscular input. For the bench I will spend my time setting up my position so I fit into it and thus can use isometric tension to my advantage. Biggest problems I have had normally involve benches that are not solid enough or are not cut to fit a shooter, and stools that are not adjustable. The latter is easily fixed by buying a stool that one can adjust.

              I have tried the free recoil thing Rick describes using some pretty heavy prone match rifles. Had a hard time calling my shots and never really got performance for some reason. So I end up testing my prone rifles from the prone in a sling, normally using an optic. I have tested loads using the irons too but the optic lets me call my shots with more precision. Have always trusted my shooting and calls more with these prone rifles when shooting in position, with sling, from the prone.

              Kind of strange to me too that I am perfectly comfortable blasting with a gas gun off a solid bench. Can call my shots well and am highly confident in my position and technique. Not so with a bolt gun. Need to put on a jacket, sling, mitt, etc and go prone. I will shoot a bolt gun prone using a bipod if I must but would not trust it to test loads. Must just be years of shooting with a sling.

              Have doubled with gas guns. Never fired a five shot string that way though. Cool.

              LR55

              Comment

              • Rickc
                Warrior
                • Aug 2016
                • 311

                #37
                I believe it is all what you are.comfortable with. I have never shot prone in my life. .

                From thd bench I adjust the front.rest for elevation the rear bag for windage, i just automaticly clutch the rear bag with my left hand fine tuning elevation by squeezing or relaxing the bag. My right hand is on the rifle grip as light.as i possibly can.

                Now do i use this technique sighting in my .308 hunting rifle or my .300 WSM. NO!! In that case i use a lead sled.for.load development.

                i like to sight in standing with a rolled up coat or backpack lots of times off the hood of the truck. Not shooting for groups just verifying sight-in. Wrap that sling tightly around my arm pull that stock tightly into my shoulder and squeeze that shot off.

                I hate taking heavy recoiling rifles to the range but for the last month before the season i always take them. Fire one shot. That cold bore shot. Make sure it is.zeroed for.that one.

                As far as bolt guns and AR's go. Bolts are the work horses and the AR's are toys. Bolts are easy to get.to shoot. An AR is a challenge.

                Why anyone would even bother to shoot a 16" noodle barrel off a bench is beyond me. Getting one to consistently shoot MOA is pretty unlikely. Now even with a 20" hbar MOA is no small feat and .5 MOA consistently is exceptional.

                If i couldn't get my 6BR bolt gun in the 2's or better consistently i would be greatly surprised

                Comment

                • Retro
                  Warrior
                  • Jul 2016
                  • 150

                  #38
                  No so far I have never seen the need to. It's certainly something worth looking at in the future. I looked up both procedures and I can make my own lapping tool. When this gun went together it was a tight fit so I really doubt that bedding is needed.
                  Originally posted by A5BLASTER View Post
                  Did you lap the reciver face and bed the barrel.

                  Comment

                  • Sputnik
                    Warrior
                    • May 2013
                    • 503

                    #39
                    Originally posted by LR1955 View Post
                    Klem:

                    How can you bump fire using a free recoil technique? The rifle is moving away from the trigger finger to the extent the trigger guard or stock allows. Or did the free recoil actuate the sear?LR55


                    I wish we would get off the testosterone scale and help the OP. How can this happen? Embarrassed to say this technique caused a two shot string of "auto fire" not once but twice as I was trying to be sooo smooth and shoot a good group. The butt stock apparently bounced forward enough after it met my shoulder to cause a second trigger pull on its own. As suggested, hold your rifle firmly. Can we move on?!

                    Comment

                    • Sputnik
                      Warrior
                      • May 2013
                      • 503

                      #40
                      In accordance with Rick's procedure from his post: "Position your shoulder behind the stock to catch it in recoil but don't put any pressure on the stock." I am guessing my shoulder was too close? I do not recommend this technique for an AR, as it did get the attention of the Range Officer.

                      Comment

                      • keystone183
                        Warrior
                        • Mar 2013
                        • 590

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Rickc View Post
                        Why anyone would even bother to shoot a 16" noodle barrel off a bench is beyond me. Getting one to consistently shoot MOA is pretty unlikely. Now even with a 20" hbar MOA is no small feat and .5 MOA consistently is exceptional.
                        ?????????

                        A wide world of wonder waits out there for you, my friend!

                        Comment

                        • Klem
                          Chieftain
                          • Aug 2013
                          • 3507

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Rickc View Post
                          ...I have never shot prone in my life.

                          Why anyone would even bother to shoot a 16" noodle barrel off a bench is beyond me. Getting one to consistently shoot MOA is pretty unlikely...

                          A Recon Rifle is not exactly a noodle gun, or a 'toy'. A bench is a comfortable shooting platform designed to eliminate variables. Keep the questions coming, happy to help.


                          55,

                          Sputnik is on the money. I gave enough shoulder gap to satisfy the 'Rick Technique' of not having any part of the body touching the rifle except the trigger finger, but there was no way I was going home with a cut eyebrow. The gun recoiled, hit my shoulder and bounced back into my finger, five times in quick succession. Impressive, if it wasn't for the quality barrel being chewed up.

                          Comment

                          • LR1955
                            Super Moderator
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 3355

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Klem View Post
                            A Recon Rifle is not exactly a noodle gun, or a 'toy'. A bench is a comfortable shooting platform designed to eliminate variables. Keep the questions coming, happy to help.


                            55,

                            Sputnik is on the money. I gave enough shoulder gap to satisfy the 'Rick Technique' of not having any part of the body touching the rifle except the trigger finger, but there was no way I was going home with a cut eyebrow. The gun recoiled, hit my shoulder and bounced back into my finger, five times in quick succession. Impressive, if it wasn't for the quality barrel being chewed up.
                            Klem:

                            Ha! That's pretty squared away. Did you preface your blasting experience by hollering out "hay guys, watch this!"

                            I bet your mates mocked you with vigor!

                            Ahhh -- barrels are a dime a dozen. Shoot that one out and buy another one.

                            LR55

                            Comment

                            • Retro
                              Warrior
                              • Jul 2016
                              • 150

                              #44
                              Rick.......
                              I've actually tried something similar to what you are suggesting here. I read on another forum about this form of light to no touch shooting. Although the Grendel is a "light recoiling rifle" it still operates with a heavy enough recoil to dislodge the rifle every time that I fired. I installed one of the Odin tunable compensators and must say that it does indeed tame the muzzle rise. I too thought that less touch from me would improve being able to stay on target. As far as the shot surprising me I have tried that approach and felt that this didn't allow me to have any pre-shot or follow thru trigger control. I also lost my sight picture with each successive shot. I will keep working on technique and appreciate each and every bit of useful information that I am able to acquire on this forum. This thread just proves to me that we can approach issues from many different directions and at least test them so long as they aren't dangerous. I THINK MY BIGGEST TAKEAWAY IS THAT MY ACCURACY SUCKS BECAUSE I'M THE ONE BEHIND THE SCOPE AND I NEED MORE SHOOTING TIME.
                              Originally posted by Rickc View Post
                              With a light recoiling rifle like the grendel try free recoil off the bags especially if you have a heavy barrel target rifle.

                              Set the rifle on the rest and use the rest and bags to get proper sight alignment not your hold on the.gun. Make sure the rear bag is directly under where your cheek contacts the stock and put no more pressure on the stock than required to get proper sight alignment. Make sure the rifle is free to slide back in recoil without hanging up on anything on the bags or rest. Make absolutely sure that you have.removed all parallax from your sight picture. Position your shoulder behind the stock to catch it in recoil but don't put any pressure on the stock.

                              Now with a steady sight picture and with no pressure on the rifle place the first joint of.your trigger finger on the trigger and begin to put pressure on the trigger straight back until it fires. It should suprise you when it goes off.

                              You should be able to just slide the rifle forward with your.shoulder back in position for the same sight.picture.

                              Do it properly 5 times in a row and.it.should be.the best group you have shot.

                              Warning !!! Don't try this with your 7 mag

                              Comment

                              • Rickc
                                Warrior
                                • Aug 2016
                                • 311

                                #45
                                Well sorry for.your experience

                                All i can say is it.works for.me

                                This is a target from a .223 20" hbar. Not half inch but pretty consistent 3/4 rifle. All these were shot free recoil.

                                [IMG][/IMG]

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