Countdown/Countup Faux Pas

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  • Double Naught Spy
    Chieftain
    • Sep 2013
    • 2560

    Countdown/Countup Faux Pas

    For those of you who group hunt/group shoot, how do you feel about countdowns? Do you have a method that you think works particularly well?

    I ask because in the last couple of years, I have been involved more and more with such hunts with hogs, but I have seen them done on hunts with other game, particularly where there are multiple hunters and multiple targets on the ground. What I have come to figure out is that with the more shooters you have, the more chances for there to be a problem with one of them, be it shooting too early, late, or not at all.

    Here is an example from this weekend. This was a leisurely hunt. The hog didn't see to know we were there, or didn't care, wasn't showing signs of being nervous, and we were not in a hurry...

    I have managed to do this as well. It can just be so doggone exciting!

    We typically count 3....2....1BANG, where triggers can be pulled once the word "ONE" is spoken. The shooter fired on or before 1 could be spoken, so was a bit early, catching everyone by surprise.

    The idea for us is that the counter counts in a evenly spaced manner so that the shooter can anticipate when they need to be exactly on target and when to pull the trigger. I know I have been with guys who make very irregular counts that throw off any sort of hope of anticipating when everyone should be firing...

    Three....Twoooooooooo.One.BANG
    Threeeeee..Two.One.BANG
    Three....Two....Onnnnnnnnnne.BANG

    Some folks fire when the count should reach zero...

    Three....Two....One....BANG

    I can't mentally keep track of the extra fraction of a second that I am supposed to delay until the ZERO point is reached, LOL.

    Some folks count up with similar timing issues
    1....2....3BANG

    The one that kills me is the guy that instead of speaking the last number, calls off the shot at the last moment for some reason...
    3....2....WAIT WAIT WAIT!

    I have even had the guy doing to count jump the count himself...
    3....2..BANG

    Not all of the count issues are premature. Again, with the more guys you have, the more chances for something not to work. Issues I have seen include not shooting or delayed shooting because...
    Safety still on
    Sweat in eyes (me)
    Didn't hear the count
    Target moved out of position (me)
    Startled by the fire of other shooters who fired on time (me)
    Got fixated on the target and just didn't remember to pull the trigger.

    It happens. It is a part of group hunts, particularly with new shooters (new or new to the group) who are less familiar with the practice. One of my occasional buddies, SpecialEd and another one of his hunting partners actually get together and practice because they have been badly out of sync more than once. Practicing has helped for them.

    So, anything y'all do to help make the process work better?
    Kill a hog. Save the planet.
    My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
  • LRRPF52
    Super Moderator
    • Sep 2014
    • 8569

    #2
    We used to practice and practice day after day for firing parties on funerals this way, because the shots needed to be perfect.

    You can do the same thing for sim shots.

    A cadence is what it comes down to.

    Some people are just not musically inclined, so no matter what you do, their brains do not have the neuropathways that can distinguish timing, but I do believe it can be developed with training.

    It reminds me of trying to get people to pronounce "Lapua" correctly. LR1955 is one of the only ones who has gotten it right off the bat, probably because of foreign language immersion and training from 10th and 1st Groups.

    You would think that pronouncing a simple 3 syllable word would just happen naturally, but I can't think of many people who can do it, even after years of me telling them the correct pronunciation.

    The Brits seem to mangle it the worst.

    Anyway, I find a set cadence to work the best, rehearsed before the hunt.

    One thing that can help is having the participants mentally simulate the stress/excitement of the moment as best as possible, with animation and passion in your description of the scenario.

    Load them up with details, then count down, having them execute a clean simulation of a trigger squeeze at the moment they are supposed to shoot.

    It will look silly as sin, but rehearsals are key to coordination between shooters for things like this.

    Also rehearse how you are going to manage your fields of fire as you traverse left or right, and how to prevent flagging each other.

    Get down in position without the guns, and rehearse it, establishing safety buffers and control measures for prevention of fratricide.

    A key technique for that is periodically getting out of the scope and checking surroundings when you traverse, then getting back on.

    Pulling down the zoom before traversing will help with TGT detection and not losing them. We used to do this with the TWS.
    NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

    CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

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    Comment

    • LR1955
      Super Moderator
      • Mar 2011
      • 3355

      #3
      What LRRP 52 says. Including how I can pronounce a Finnish word! Got to be the most difficult language anyone can try to learn.

      My advice is that one guy does the count down. This guy is an observer who is taking in the entire situation. He does not shoot. His job is to observe, designate sectors of fire, ensure the shooters are prepared for their shot, gives the count, and continues to observe and control the fire until the engagement is done. It doesn't matter what the count is. Only that the shooters understand it and can execute their shot using the technique. It needs to be rehearsed with the shooters -- a lot.

      One technique of giving a count that I like is that the count is based on the type of breathing one would do when shooting. One inhale and exhale per count. Normally, 'three, two, one,' and the shooters engage as the word 'one' ends. This will take about three or four seconds between each number. Slow, controlled, breathing and speech using a calm tone of voice will normally calm a shooter and allow them to attend to their shot.

      Key feature -- observer is the guy who controls the engagement and shooters. He does not shoot. He needs to be the best guy you have in terms of self control and situational awareness.

      LR55

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