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  • pajasonc
    Warrior
    • Dec 2016
    • 203

    #16
    Did the study take into account the % by caliber that dropped on the spot? Or was the average distance for the deer running just for those that ran? To be honest I just skimmed the study

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    • Drift
      Warrior
      • Nov 2014
      • 509

      #17
      I'll conclude "That bullets between 25 and 30 calibers all kill deer about the same". So deer hunting cartridge selection should be based on other considerations. Considerations like (maybe) accuracy, PBR, recoil, price and availability.

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      • Singleshotsam
        Bloodstained
        • Jan 2016
        • 38

        #18
        Recoil has NO reason to be used, no one feels recoil hunting, it does make a big difference in the amount of practice they do before. With game in the scope recoil antisapation is not a big factor.

        Comment

        • LRRPF52
          Super Moderator
          • Sep 2014
          • 8569

          #19
          Originally posted by Singleshotsam View Post
          Recoil has NO reason to be used, no one feels recoil hunting, it does make a big difference in the amount of practice they do before. With game in the scope recoil antisapation is not a big factor.
          I disagree. Recoil prevents you from seeing your impact, so you have to rely on another person who is set up to spot for you to give you feedback on where your shot went.

          You may need to know that information right away in a number of scenarios, particularly when a follow-up shot is needed, or how much space you can give the animal before/when it goes down.

          Often times, people spook an animal that would normally just bed and expire for you on the spot, instead causing it to run off and expire somewhere else you may not be able to find.

          Recoil is your enemy in every way. It also limits what scopes and mounts you can use, requiring more robust optics construction, more secure mounting methods, which costs a lot more.

          All the energy expended by the firearm/cartridge system is a complete waste, and often counter-productive to your goals, if you can't place the shot correctly, or get immediate feedback on where your POI was.

          I do agree with you 100%, that it does make a big difference in the amount of practice you can do before the hunt. You can manage that with reduced loads in the big bore rifles and rifles with high case capacity, long actions, and excessive recoil.

          Another problem is what recoil does to your shooting position. You will never have a bench rest position when hunting unless you are varmint-slaying off a bench, and then recoil isn't an issue anyway because you're using something small bore if you have any sense. Most of your field positions are standing or kneeling. If you're better equipped, they'll be tripod supported, which is a different ballgame for recoil and rifle movement at the shot.

          This is why I really like 6.5mm, .257", and 6mm.
          NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

          CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

          6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

          www.AR15buildbox.com

          Comment

          • Djgrendel
            Warrior
            • Feb 2016
            • 200

            #20
            Where and how I hunt, has me stalking. I usually have plenty of time to get a solid rest and take a deliberate shot. The grendel has allowed me to watch the bullet impact and see the life flow from my quarry. Even in fairly thick timber I know it won't be a far seach down the crimson path. The ability to spot my own shots dictates the progress of celebration. I don't always miss, but when I do... someone is watching. And they usually have a comment of sarcasm locked and loaded for just that occasion.
            Yard work is not an excuse!

            Comment

            • sneaky one
              Chieftain
              • Mar 2011
              • 3077

              #21
              I shot whitetail at 20---70 yds. Back in the 90's. 7MM Mag. Bullet cut the heart in half,,, off the deer ran--75-100 yds. Really? Was my main inquiry. Along comes 2008--- A few of us found the Grrrr round online . Hmmmm..... We have 2 Gray wolf packs along our 7 mile trail-road into the forest --- AKA jungle habitat. Perfect device to protect myself from being eaten, and a game getting round. In an AR package- semi auto, cool, extra mags for self defense, LOW RECOIL was a Huge bonus here.

              Comment

              • AZBackcountry
                Bloodstained
                • Nov 2016
                • 78

                #22
                I'm surprised that no one has brought up buck fever when talking about lack of practice. I've seen more new hunters shaking from it than any other problem with shot placement. I agree that all the other factors are on target.

                I shot a Coues Whitetail in the '70s with 7mm Mag with a Cor-Lokt 150gr at 20 yards and it pin-holed through the lungs. Muley same everything but 50 yards and you could put you fist in the exit. Three shots on the same bull elk; 2 pin-holes and a grenade. That is when I found Hornady that expanded on hair and then Barnes and now Berger. But in the '60s and '70s we shot water jugs and got real tech savvy added food coloring and froze them. Rem Cor-Lokt, Winchester and Federal was all we had.
                Life is fun when your ammo budget is more than your house payment.

                Comment

                • Texas
                  Chieftain
                  • Jun 2016
                  • 1230

                  #23
                  Do the facts dictate the answer, or does the answer dictacte the facts? I have been following the statistics for kills with the 6.5 Grendel on this website, and I must say that the data shows amazing results for the Grendel. Then I stop and think about the individuals who are shooting the Grendel, and I suspect that they are not the run of the mill hunters and are very careful about shot placement. Could it be possible that we could take a 250/3000 and put it in the hands of the same shooters and get similar results. Most of the data that I see recorded is either a head shot or a heart/lung shot which is not typical for the average hunter.

                  I have done a lot of snake hunting in Texas with a handgun and have found that a .36 black powder pistol is much more consistent in anchoring and killing a snake than a 9mm or 38 special. The slow moving projectile stays in the target longer and does more systemic damage.

                  Understanding the rifles limitations and the shooters limitations are the most significant parameters in consistent DRT.

                  Comment

                  • AZBackcountry
                    Bloodstained
                    • Nov 2016
                    • 78

                    #24
                    Great point. The type of person that goes the extra effort to own a Grendel chambered firearm is not your average firearm owner. A quest for a niche round is normally only done by someone experienced. The average newbie walks into a gun shop and lets the salesman select their elk/deer("Anything in North America") firearm.

                    I taught for the AZ Game and Fish Hunter Safety Coarse for 17 years; I believe and told many a student that a .243 is an elk rifle. If I was asked I would tell those same students that the 6.5 Grendel is too. The proof is in the pudding when you have a student that is willing to practice, scout, get familiar with seeing elk, train like an athlete, get familiar with limitations and be willing to only take that one clean kill shot. An elk can go from 0 to 45 miles per hour in less time than you can imagine, so a followup shot should not be expected. I tracked a bull for 2 1/2 miles through a canyon with elevation gain of 1600' for my dad who took a 1/4ing forward shoulder shot with a 30-06 at 10 yards. The 200+ grain bullet ricochet off of the bone. The gun does not make the hunter.
                    Life is fun when your ammo budget is more than your house payment.

                    Comment

                    • thorshammer
                      Unwashed
                      • Jun 2016
                      • 8

                      #25
                      I know this post is somewhat old but I just got back from my last hunting trip and hopefully can chime in. As everyone has said in various ways I think it's more there really is no magic answer to taking down a deer. way too many variables. This was my first time hunting Axis deer in Hawaii and it is a very different animal than Whitetail for y'all who have got the pleasure of shooting both. My Fiance's dad has lived out there his whole life and is an outfitter for a company. He has a custom made .300winmag and i brought my trusty Grendel. the deer on Molokai are crazy abundant and we were going on a meat hunt so I was hoping we were gonna get to grab a few to help out their family. We agreed to trade shots and I drew the first shot. Long story short the My deer dropped 10 yards from where I hit him using Hornady factory (not trusting airlines with customloads) and hit him about 6" above the heart. we were harvested and back for round 2 in an hour. His deer took off for a bout 200 yrds around a ravine and his shot was perfect placement. now all the data sheets in the world would say that deer shouldn't have even made it 2 more steps but thats hunting. long story short about 3 hrs later it was dinner time so missed out on the second shot til 2019. I think the thing to remember hunting just like fishing is a lot more to do with luck and timing than data sheets. My advice get a good gun. get confident with it and go have fun.
                      Proverbs 1:25-28

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