$300 budget and too picky and ignorant too decide

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  • Blazin
    Bloodstained
    • Sep 2013
    • 68

    #16
    IMHO the best precision scope deal is SWFA's 10x SS scope for sale on Black Friday. Lifetime warranty too. That scope coupled with a used Armalite mount off of Gunbroker will put you just a little north of $300. I've owned the Nikon and Leupold AR scopes and I think the SWFA is a much better value. I've also owned the cheaper scope mounts (i.e. Burris) and prefer an Armalite or Warne if I'm on a budget, but heck, if you watch for sales you can pick up a new ADM mount for $115ish now. Good luck!

    Comment

    • LRRPF52
      Super Moderator
      • Sep 2014
      • 8569

      #17
      If this is for hunting, then I strongly recommend against a fixed 10x.

      If it's for target, then that is fine, as long as you don't have any target arrays that require a lot of shooting from one target to the next on the clock.

      There are a lot of good deals on Vortex Vipers and Viper PSTs or Viper HSTs from the 1st Generation, as the new Gen II PSTs come out.
      NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

      CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

      6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

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      Comment

      • mateba
        Bloodstained
        • Mar 2017
        • 84

        #18
        Thank you, for of you taking the time to help me.

        Originally posted by GarandThumb View Post
        $300 for the whole setup is tough. If I were buying for myself with a very limited budget and with the intention of getting in some long range work this is what I would go with:
        RRA Hi-Rise Cantilever Scope Mount, 30mm Rings $65
        Rock River Arms, Inc. offers a complete line of American made, custom built AR15 style rifles.

        Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 PA - Dead-Hold BDC
        On sale for $320 at Cameraland

        I think Midway and a few other places have the 44mm objective version of the same scope for ~$330.
        It'll cost you about $100 more but it would be worth it. The RRA mount is a little on the heavy side, but its also very solid. I've had one for many years on my 556 AR. The standard Viper scopes are still solid scopes with good glass and nice resetable turrets. You get about 65 moa total travel. You'll come up a little short at 1000 yards without a canted mount but you can use the hash marks to help hold over.
        Good Luck!
        Thank you, I apparently could use it. I like that RRA mount. And I'll start looking into some scopes out of my budget. I might be able to sell a toy or two to help push this along. I'm not sure I should throw all my eggs into the 1000yard considering it is the most financially demanding and I happen to have the least amount of experience in doing it between all the activities I've listed.

        In a multiple scope solution, would buying a nice fixed power for that make since? I've been told to consider the SWFA SS 10x several times. And as a $300 optic it seems a like an attractive consideration. I really don't need a long range optic for hunting and I certainly don't need the weight for sports.

        Originally posted by NugginFutz View Post
        As some have said, just pick the scope and mount that meet your requirements, and then save up for that. Patience => virtue => reward.
        You've heard it said everywhere, "By once, cry once." I've gone through enough cheap scopes when I was first getting into the game, with no shortage of regrettable selections - all of which either went back to Midway/Amazon or were sold outright. I kept none of the junk.
        Cheap always has at least one source component. Either the glass is mediocre, the mechanism (erector or turrets) is unreliable or doesn't track, reticles are susceptible to dislodging and on and on...
        Sooner or later, the reason a cheap scope is cheap will reveal itself, and that moment is almost always in the field - never on the bench.
        That's a pretty reasonable suggestion. I'd rather be shooting with a cheap scope than not shooting at all if those are the choices. I hope I won't have to use my warranty but at least its there.

        Originally posted by Blazin View Post
        IMHO the best precision scope deal is SWFA's 10x SS scope for sale on Black Friday. Lifetime warranty too. That scope coupled with a used Armalite mount off of Gunbroker will put you just a little north of $300. I've owned the Nikon and Leupold AR scopes and I think the SWFA is a much better value. I've also owned the cheaper scope mounts (i.e. Burris) and prefer an Armalite or Warne if I'm on a budget, but heck, if you watch for sales you can pick up a new ADM mount for $115ish now. Good luck!
        I saw the sale for those mounts too. I think those are QD too. That's a great price! I really like the 3.25oz weight of the AP mount though.

        Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
        If this is for hunting, then I strongly recommend against a fixed 10x. If it's for target, then that is fine, as long as you don't have any target arrays that require a lot of shooting from one target to the next on the clock. There are a lot of good deals on Vortex Vipers and Viper PSTs or Viper HSTs from the 1st Generation, as the new Gen II PSTs come out.
        I think one of the major troubles I'm having in picking a scope is that I do want to do a little of everything. The other major problem would be my budget. For the sake of the conversation Ill put my priorities in a list and maybe this will help.

        Sport shooting; plinking at the range, shooting targets a few hundred yards and closer and shooting while time is a factor. Carbine classes.
        Hunting
        Long range; Is is fare to define this as 500yards or more? I would be learning to do this from the ground up but I'm still very interested in shooting long range.

        https://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Viper-...PST-43103+mrad I saw this optic and really like it. Twice my budget and I'm not sure its a really a good fit.

        Comment

        • StoneHendge
          Chieftain
          • May 2016
          • 2009

          #19
          I recently bought a Cabelas Covenant FFP 4-16x44 for my Anderson Predator 5.56 with a 24" bull barrel that I use for pdogs and high volume practice. I couldn't buy it online despite the good reviews because I couldn't believe the $249 price. But I finally got down to Denver to take a look at one and bought it on the spot. There is simply nothing out there that comes even close in price that has a Christmas tree type reticle for pure holdovers - even with SFP. The glass will never be confused with my Vortex Vipers or Bushnell Elites, the eyebox will never be described as forgiving, the reticle lines are on the thick side, the center dot is probably a little too big to shoot the smallest groups possible on paper and the clicks are on the mushy side. But if your looking to get something that can allow you to shoot relatively long ranges without dialing, I don't think you can go wrong.

          I've put 350 rounds through my Predator since I got it. After zeroing it and repeatedly banging some steel with it at 450 and getting a few hits at 750 in breezy conditions, I took it to the desert where I was repeatedly banging a 10" gong at 525 and managed 3 hits out of 9 shots on a 12 oz Bolthouse Farms bottle at 400 yards (that's a 1.5x0.5 MOA target with my load that shoots around 3/4 MOA without trying too hard (69 grain SMK at 2915 fps with an ED of 10). It definitely held vertical zero and I'm pretty sure it held horizontal, but I was dealing with 3 wind vectors and adjusting to my misses and I haven't had time to get it down to my range to shoot some paper to confirm it held.

          Two disclaimers. 1) My Predator is a beast (pushes 12 pounds all decked out on bathroom scale) and has very little recoil, so a scope on it doesn't get punished. 2) I haven't done any dial ups on it so I don't know how well the turrets work.

          Attached Files
          Let's go Brandon!

          Comment

          • NugginFutz
            Chieftain
            • Aug 2013
            • 2622

            #20
            If long distance is in the cards for your rifle, here is a thread which covered a very objective means to determine the basic integrity of your scope's turrets, reticle and mounting. Even if your scope doesn't track perfectly, the means to mitigate the shortcomings are covered in the referenced video.

            Bryan Litz posted this video last week. Tall Target Test (http://nssf.it/talltarget0615) The video demonstrates a simple test which will determine if your scope accurately tracks vertically, and if it is mounted correctly. Didn't choose the perfect scope? No worries, there. He also shows how to easily apply corrections for
            If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

            Comment

            • mateba
              Bloodstained
              • Mar 2017
              • 84

              #21
              Please excuse me for not replying sooner. I've been busy but I meant to return to this thread sooner than now.

              Originally posted by StoneHendge View Post
              I recently bought a Cabelas Covenant FFP 4-16x44 for my Anderson Predator 5.56 with a 24" bull barrel that I use for pdogs and high volume practice. I couldn't buy it online despite the good reviews because I couldn't believe the $249 price. But I finally got down to Denver to take a look at one and bought it on the spot. There is simply nothing out there that comes even close in price that has a Christmas tree type reticle for pure holdovers - even with SFP. The glass will never be confused with my Vortex Vipers or Bushnell Elites, the eyebox will never be described as forgiving, the reticle lines are on the thick side, the center dot is probably a little too big to shoot the smallest groups possible on paper and the clicks are on the mushy side. But if your looking to get something that can allow you to shoot relatively long ranges without dialing, I don't think you can go wrong.

              I've put 350 rounds through my Predator since I got it. After zeroing it and repeatedly banging some steel with it at 450 and getting a few hits at 750 in breezy conditions, I took it to the desert where I was repeatedly banging a 10" gong at 525 and managed 3 hits out of 9 shots on a 12 oz Bolthouse Farms bottle at 400 yards (that's a 1.5x0.5 MOA target with my load that shoots around 3/4 MOA without trying too hard (69 grain SMK at 2915 fps with an ED of 10). It definitely held vertical zero and I'm pretty sure it held horizontal, but I was dealing with 3 wind vectors and adjusting to my misses and I haven't had time to get it down to my range to shoot some paper to confirm it held.

              Two disclaimers. 1) My Predator is a beast (pushes 12 pounds all decked out on bathroom scale) and has very little recoil, so a scope on it doesn't get punished. 2) I haven't done any dial ups on it so I don't know how well the turrets work.

              http://www.cabelas.com/product/shoot...es/2339073.uts
              Thank you for the suggestion. I'm trying to keep my rifle light enough to run around with it. Trying to keep my rifle kinda light get all the goodies and meet my budget is not easy. I'm pretty much thinking, I'll need to compromise not and possibly sort it out when I build another rifle.

              Originally posted by NugginFutz View Post
              If long distance is in the cards for your rifle, here is a thread which covered a very objective means to determine the basic integrity of your scope's turrets, reticle and mounting. Even if your scope doesn't track perfectly, the means to mitigate the shortcomings are covered in the referenced video.

              http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...l=1#post113246
              Long distance is in the cards but I'm not sure its my primary focus for my rifle. Thank you for the link, that's awesome. I'll make sure I check out my scope.

              So over the last week I did compile a list of scopes I seemed to be interested in. I am on the lower end of the scale with my budget. And most certainly, if some of you are fortunate enough to have some of the best offerings on the market. But, this is my first rifle AR and first real rifle so if I don't get it all accomplished sometime soon I'll have a starting point for my next rifle. I even have an extra lower laying around now.

              Bushnell 4500 2.5-10x40 $270 16oz


              Leupold VX-3i 2.5-8x36 $300-400 11.4ox
              SWFA is an optics manufacturing specializing in rifle scopes built for tactical, hunting, and long range shooting known for quality and precision optics.


              Leupold 3-9x33 VX-2 Ultralight Riflescope $350-380 11.5oz
              SWFA is an optics manufacturing specializing in rifle scopes built for tactical, hunting, and long range shooting known for quality and precision optics.


              VORTEX Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP PST-43103 $600-800 18.7oz


              SWFA SS 3-15x42 Tactical Rifle Scope $600-700 24oz
              SWFA is an optics manufacturing specializing in rifle scopes built for tactical, hunting, and long range shooting known for quality and precision optics.


              I favor the last two scopes the most for their FFP. I am really excited about the Vortex PST for its function, size and cost. I did find a few for $550 shipped. I didn't see too many scopes like it let alone in my budget. The SWFA is also FFP and another great choice from what I can tell. As you can see from some of my other choices, that I'm trending to lighter and smaller scopes to include some that might be more suited for other things besides long distance. So I might buy another scope later for long distance like a SWFA fixed power and hopefully then won't feel so constrained since I'll already have scope that is suited for lighter duties. I have not gone out and looked through glass yet so my impressions so far are based of reviews and factory specs. Any critiques or suggestions are welcome and encouraged. I would not have gotten outside of my $300 budget without the nudges. Thank you again for all of you taking the time to reply and help. Thanks

              Comment

              • Kilco
                Chieftain
                • Jan 2016
                • 1201

                #22
                I've been in your budget range before and for me the best buy I got for a hunting/recreational steel slammer was the Redfield Revolution TAC 3-9. 1/4 MOA turrets, 2 moa hash reticle, great glass for the money with a ridiculous amount of eye relief. Also redfield "no excuses" lifetime warrenty. It's very light especially with the pepr mount. Also both togather are right around your $300 budget.

                Comment

                • mateba
                  Bloodstained
                  • Mar 2017
                  • 84

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Kilco View Post
                  I've been in your budget range before and for me the best buy I got for a hunting/recreational steel slammer was the Redfield Revolution TAC 3-9. 1/4 MOA turrets, 2 moa hash reticle, great glass for the money with a ridiculous amount of eye relief. Also redfield "no excuses" lifetime warrenty. It's very light especially with the pepr mount. Also both togather are right around your $300 budget.
                  Thanks! That is a very light scope. I've been really hesitant to decide on a scope with a specific eye relief. They are kinda a bummer.

                  Comment

                  • Kilco
                    Chieftain
                    • Jan 2016
                    • 1201

                    #24
                    They sure are... I've spent top dollar on scopes and they have a very specific eye relief box. The redfield revolution TAC has one of the most generous eye boxes I've used, which is important to me with a gun my wife, and kids will be using to hunt with as well.

                    Comment

                    • Chrazy-Chris
                      Warrior
                      • Aug 2015
                      • 169

                      #25
                      You can find Vortex Vipers for much cheaper than the one you listed. Here's one on sale from Midway for $400, 4-16 power. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/21...-reticle-matte

                      The only drawback to that deal is the reticle... I prefer reticles that have uniformly spaced hashmarks that match the turrets, but the BDC ones do have their place for hunting and once you figure out the holdovers, they can be pretty handy and a real confidence-builder on long shots.

                      I've bought into the FFP scheme before and to me it's not necessary for a hobby shooter. The idea is that the graduated reticle is accurate at every power in the variable range whereas with SFP, it is only accurate when the scope is turned all the way up. Think about that for a minute - if you're shooting far enough that you have to use holdovers, you're likely to have the scope turned all the way up anyways thus making it a mute point and a waste of money. The only FFP I invested in are 20+ power scopes because sometimes at that power you want to dial it down a little bit to get better clarity, see mirage, spot vapor trails for your buddy, etc.

                      Comment

                      • mateba
                        Bloodstained
                        • Mar 2017
                        • 84

                        #26
                        Good point. I do like the idea of having some low end magnification. I'd like more... I have also noticed that I tend to like tactical reticles. When hunting I'll be using low magnification for light transmission and I'm not sure if I'll need to estimate range but a FFP will allow me to do it at the lowest magnification. I might not be able to see the target at max magnification in low light.

                        I need to go look through glass and I need to call vortex about warrantying a discontinues model. If they will not warranty the scope I'll probably be reconsidering the PST.

                        Comment

                        • dreadpirate
                          Bloodstained
                          • Apr 2017
                          • 29

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Chrazy-Chris View Post
                          You can find Vortex Vipers for much cheaper than the one you listed. Here's one on sale from Midway for $400, 4-16 power. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/21...-reticle-matte
                          That is a good deal. I saw the Viper HS 2.5X10 for more than that.

                          Comment

                          • dreadpirate
                            Bloodstained
                            • Apr 2017
                            • 29

                            #28
                            Originally posted by dreadpirate View Post
                            That is a good deal. I saw the Viper HS 2.5X10 for more than that.
                            This Vortex 4-16 power Viper HS is $350
                            Last edited by dreadpirate; 04-29-2017, 07:43 PM.

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