First Grendel Reloads "Sticking"

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  • Chrazy-Chris
    Warrior
    • Aug 2015
    • 169

    #16
    Originally posted by grayfox View Post
    One thing I might add b/c not seeing it mentioned yet... for me, once-fired hornady brass, the case length has always been too long after re-sizing, it's like 1.523 or 4 or so... I have had to trim/chamfer all my hornadys after the first firing. After that they behave fine.
    Do you verify that case length after re-sizing is under 1.520?
    I checked them using the Wilson case gauge but did not put my calipers on them... which was stupid of me. I read up and down where people get 6 or more shots through them without trimming so I didn't even bother checking with my calipers when they looked shorter than the case gauge. Four important take-aways (aka here's an opportunity to learn from my mistakes):

    1. Just check the dang case length to see if it needs trimmed despite what your read on the internet.
    2. Be crystal-clear about which bolt your barrel takes. "SAAMI Spec" doesn't mean shit when it comes to bolt depth. Both .136 and .125 can fit "SAAMI Spec" cartridges as long as they are matched with the right chamber. Wilson barrels from JSE take .125.
    3. Run Hornady resizing dies all the way to the shellholder, then press until you think you're going to break something. Or don't buy Hornady dies because you're going to spend an extra $30 on them anyways for the micro adjust seater just to get a consistent seating depth due to their trash rubber washer design.
    4. Wilson case gauge doesn't mean dick. Try the first reload you assemble in your chamber before you spend an entire evening loading up rounds. Just keep the thing pointed in a safe direction when you do and don't forget there is a floating firing pin in there (thankfully I didn't learn this lesson the hard way). Your butt SHOULD pucker during this step.

    Comment

    • grayfox
      Chieftain
      • Jan 2017
      • 4295

      #17
      Originally posted by Chrazy-Chris View Post
      I checked them using the Wilson case gauge but did not put my calipers on them... which was stupid of me. I read up and down where people get 6 or more shots through them without trimming so I didn't even bother checking with my calipers when they looked shorter than the case gauge. Four important take-aways (aka here's an opportunity to learn from my mistakes):

      1. Just check the dang case length to see if it needs trimmed despite what your read on the internet.
      2. Be crystal-clear about which bolt your barrel takes. "SAAMI Spec" doesn't mean shit when it comes to bolt depth. Both .136 and .125 can fit "SAAMI Spec" cartridges as long as they are matched with the right chamber. Wilson barrels from JSE take .125.
      3. Run Hornady resizing dies all the way to the shellholder, then press until you think you're going to break something. Or don't buy Hornady dies because you're going to spend an extra $30 on them anyways for the micro adjust seater just to get a consistent seating depth due to their trash rubber washer design.
      4. Wilson case gauge doesn't mean dick. Try the first reload you assemble in your chamber before you spend an entire evening loading up rounds. Just keep the thing pointed in a safe direction when you do and don't forget there is a floating firing pin in there (thankfully I didn't learn this lesson the hard way). Your butt SHOULD pucker during this step.
      I would suggest a couple of edits here...
      3. Once you get cases that properly fire after resizing/trimming, use the case gage to tweak your resizing die setting back up just a tad... so that the shoulder gets bumped back oh... 0.003 to 0.005 from what it is post-shot. That way the case shoulder will be set back but not over-work your brass. Then check the case length, trim/chamfer to < 1.520. I check at 1.520 w/ calipers then if trimming is needed, trim back to 1.514 (I have a "standard case" of this length stored with the resizing dies, so setting trim length is quicker and more std)... some trim to 1.510 which is minimum, your choice. Hornady dies set shoulder back usually 0.009 or so, which works the brass too much. Check and double check through-out this process.

      4. on checking if it will fit in chamber, drop it in then see if it falls freely back into your hand (no bolt or bcg usage in this step). Then carefully hand-set it into the bolt/bcg and guide it into the chamber to see if it latches. Note!!! You only use the upper for these two steps. I don't cycle it with the bcg/lower etc while in-house, (refer to butt-puckering above!). you can carefully overcome the tension on the ejector pin and guide the round into the chamber using only the upper.

      New rule #5 (call this one John's law) Never Assume!!!! mathematically,
      "ASSUME = 0.00000!"
      #6. Self-check at several points along the way.
      You may already know these last 2!
      "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

      Comment

      • Drillboss
        Warrior
        • Jan 2015
        • 894

        #18
        Originally posted by grayfox View Post
        I would suggest a couple of edits here...
        3. Once you get cases that properly fire after resizing/trimming, use the case gage to tweak your resizing die setting back up just a tad... so that the shoulder gets bumped back oh... 0.003 to 0.005 from what it is post-shot. That way the case shoulder will be set back but not over-work your brass. Then check the case length, trim/chamfer to < 1.520. I check at 1.520 w/ calipers then if trimming is needed, trim back to 1.514 (I have a "standard case" of this length stored with the resizing dies, so setting trim length is quicker and more std)... some trim to 1.510 which is minimum, your choice. Hornady dies set shoulder back usually 0.009 or so, which works the brass too much. Check and double check through-out this process.

        4. on checking if it will fit in chamber, drop it in then see if it falls freely back into your hand (no bolt or bcg usage in this step). Then carefully hand-set it into the bolt/bcg and guide it into the chamber to see if it latches. Note!!! You only use the upper for these two steps. I don't cycle it with the bcg/lower etc while in-house, (refer to butt-puckering above!). you can carefully overcome the tension on the ejector pin and guide the round into the chamber using only the upper.

        New rule #5 (call this one John's law) Never Assume!!!! mathematically,
        "ASSUME = 0.00000!"
        #6. Self-check at several points along the way.
        You may already know these last 2!
        The pucker factor can be eliminated through this process of measuring, checking, and function testing by starting with a dummy round, no powder or primer.

        Comment

        • Aged1
          Bloodstained
          • Feb 2017
          • 27

          #19
          This whole discussion is a review of where I have been for a few weeks . My solution was: Chuck the Lee sizing die, buy a Redding full length sizing die, get the measuring tools and MAKE SURE I'm bumping the case neck back .005 +|-. Problem solved! Load shoot, repeat. I learned this more piece meal, and spent time here, and at Utube U. This us my first auto loader rifle I've loaded for, and it us some more complex than bolt guns.
          I guess I had a semi beginning lesson loading for my first semi auto loading hand piece (9mm in Sig). If I did not full length size the case COMPLETELY my ammo only worked in my gun.

          Comment

          • grayfox
            Chieftain
            • Jan 2017
            • 4295

            #20
            Excellent point. Matter of fact I just got a collet style bullet puller (instead of my kinetic one which was a pain), so I can more easily do that with dummy rounds. Glad you mentioned it!
            Chrazy, you should consider this tool as well.....
            "Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"

            Comment

            • IceAxe
              Warrior
              • Jan 2014
              • 168

              #21
              One other thing that should probably be mentioned....Use the shell holder that matches the dies, RCBS - RCBS, Hornady - Hornady. Shell holders can have different deck heights.

              Comment

              • Chrazy-Chris
                Warrior
                • Aug 2015
                • 169

                #22
                Anyone using the Hornady shoulder bushings? Based on their description it sounds like this might be a solution to bump the shoulder back to a consistent dimension without having to really crank on my press like I am currently to get them set back far enough.

                Comment

                • CCW
                  Unwashed
                  • Apr 2017
                  • 17

                  #23
                  Glad you found the problem. Interesting that the Wilson Pattern Gage would not catch a "fat" case. Some folks with your dilemma take a little off the top of the shell holder for that particular round by grinding, filing, sanding, etc. until the ram pushes the case up in the die without ripping the press out of its mounts. ;-)

                  Another trick is to back-check your Wilson Gage by using the chamber itself...shotgun the AR, turn the barrel muzzle straight up and finger feed the round. Push hard. It should fall back out. Also make sure you got all that Tula/Wolfe polymer out of the chamber with a good acetone. alcohol scrub. --I keed! I keed!

                  Comment

                  • NugginFutz
                    Chieftain
                    • Aug 2013
                    • 2622

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Chrazy-Chris View Post
                    Anyone using the Hornady shoulder bushings? Based on their description it sounds like this might be a solution to bump the shoulder back to a consistent dimension without having to really crank on my press like I am currently to get them set back far enough.
                    Chris - perhaps you've already discovered the Hornady shoulder bushings do not change the shoulder set back in any way. They are for measuring the distance from the shoulder datum line to the case base.

                    If you are have difficulty setting your case shoulders back far enough, you might have a defective:
                    a) sizing die
                    b) case holder
                    c) chamber (not reamed deeply enough, resulting in slightly short fired cases)

                    Since you have the Wilson case gauge, you can check for C) yourself. Drop an unsized fired case into the gauge and check where the case head rests. If the case head is at or below the minimum recess, then you may have a undersized chamber. Most sizing dies will be unable to bump the case shoulders by very much at all, since they are usually designed to size to that depth when indexed off the shell holder.

                    If it is an undersized chamber, the fix is relatively simple - have someone with a finish reamer touch it up. If you do, be certain to re-check head space afterwards.

                    Personal Anecdote alert:
                    I have two BHW rifles, in 264 LBC, bought a year apart. I had no issues with the first, other than having to set the (Hornady) sizing die to cam the press over more than any of the other rifle cartridges I reload.

                    After I bought the second, I found that the brass fired from rifle B could not resize enough to be chambered in rifle A. I could not set the shoulders back enough to get rifle A's bolt to close reliably on cases fired from the newer rifle B.

                    The reason? The chamber in rifle A was cut a little short. I found that it would almost but not quite close on a Go gauge. This was in spite of the fact that factory ammo and reloads had been chambering and firing without issue. A trip back to BHW cured the problem and now fired brass is completely interchangeable.

                    I no longer try to fire reloads from one in the other, but that is a different matter.
                    Last edited by NugginFutz; 05-13-2017, 04:18 PM.
                    If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

                    Comment

                    • slickshot223
                      Unwashed
                      • Apr 2017
                      • 19

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Chrazy-Chris View Post
                      The sizing die is already screwed down all the way so that the die body contacts the shell holder - am I missing something here?
                      Have had a similar issue, found that using a different lube solve the problem. If your chamber is tight and the dies are a bit on the loose side you may have this issue!

                      Comment

                      • Kilco
                        Chieftain
                        • Jan 2016
                        • 1201

                        #26
                        Am I missing something here?? If it's a Wilson barrel I believe it's reamed for a .125 bolt face. AA bolts are .136... if this is the case, wouldnt there be an excessive headspace issue?

                        Again, I honestly might be missing something...

                        Comment

                        • bj139
                          Chieftain
                          • Mar 2017
                          • 1968

                          #27
                          Any press has some play or it would not operate. The extra quarter turn is necessary to take up this play.

                          When you resize a case and try to push a feeler gauge (or paper) into the space between the shellholder and die, it should not fit.

                          If it does you are not full length resizing.

                          Comment

                          • Lone Hunter
                            Warrior
                            • Jan 2017
                            • 170

                            #28
                            You might want to also look at the Redding Body Die and Competition Shellholders. That's what I had to do. Have Foester. BR dies and they wouldn't size all the way. Chamber is tight and short. Mine was contacting the rifling on the SST's past the cannelure and have to seat deeper. BHW 3P rifling 20" .264 LBC Barrel. Had to use the comp. Shellholders to get the bump and resizing done.

                            Comment

                            • diddlyv
                              Warrior
                              • Aug 2016
                              • 352

                              #29
                              Is there a burr on the case mouth?? I was having problems with loaded rounds sticking in my chamber also using new brass. Pushed bullets deeper etc trying to solve the problem. Eventually majic markered the bullets and did not see rifling marks. Was at a loss for a bit. Nothing really helped until I de burred the case mouth then wonder of wonders no sticking even with the bullet set to original lenth that stuck.
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